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UH SPOILERS Harrington family history

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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:51 pm

cthia
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Solely as a bit-o-humor.

In the Bible, man was not to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

But! Hard headed man partakes of the damned fruit anyway. Fast forward into the malignant future. What does man decide to do? He throws caution to the wind, cross pollinates the seeds of the original tree of good and evil to produce an even bigger tree with more dangerous fruit. And then he proceeds to gobble up the whole damn bushel. What a handful is man.

I suppose we can blame a woman for this one too. Detweiler's wife should have slapped him upside his damn head. Only a strong woman can stem the tide of a raging lunatic considering insane plans like... well... trying to kill off Honor. LOL

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:10 pm

cthia
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PeterZ wrote:
cthia wrote:
1) Hasn't that ship already sailed? What happened on Old Earth with the research and the Final Wars has already impacted the entire galaxy.

-It created a Code to deal with the fallout.

-It created a card carrying meat-cleaver against that code.

-It created a racial divide of subjugates created by the "ethics" of a meat cleaver. Subjugates who arguably have no identity.

-A slew of card carrying dissidents spurned by the meat cleaver.

-Racism and prejudices from causes and effects of that racial divide caused by the meat cleaver.

-And just maybe many more unseen perturbations in the puddle dropped by a huge pill in the ocean of mankind.

2) Well, no they can't. Because they are not yet privy to the arrogance and stupidity. But it wouldn't remain that way. If the Malign manages to shoot themselves in the proverbial foot, the pain won't necessarily remain in their extremity, it may come home to mother Earth and the rest of the galaxy to roost, where then it may be much too late to close Pandora's box. That would not be the ideal time, or the ideal way, to find out about it.

You are arguing that the results of Final War justify whatever measures were taken to address those results. Nonsense. As David states, the code was interpreted more extremely than the originators envisioned. That means the code by definition has been degraded from its original intent. Regardless of the rationalization of those that hijacked the original Code, the current interpretation is closer to the original intent than the actual interpretation by SL legal thinkers and the Solly person in the street.

All this is to say, the Code as currently interpreted, is ripe for a comprehensive review. The results of which will likely approximate the current GMA and GA thought.


Yes, I understand that the binding that bears the Beowulf Code is the new misunderstood, misinterpreted Bible. And Detweiler is the serpent saying "You will not surely die." (At least not until the onus of responsibility falls upon mere clones after I'm gone.)

But, one misstep invalidates the modern interpretation with simply an OOPS much bigger than Shannon's. It's only nonsense until it's not. I still don't understand why we all don't agree that it was correct for the present "interpretation" of, lets say, the spirit of the Code, to err on the side of caution.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:55 pm

cthia
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The Malign remind me of the classic Operation game produced by Milton Bradley with the spine jarring buzzer which signaled a botched surgery. Can you imagine the bone jarring sound of that game signaling a true disaster of mankind?

The company sure got the sound right on that game. It'd make you jump out of your skin. Whoa boy!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:34 pm

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cthia wrote:Solely as a bit-o-humor.

In the Bible, man was not to partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge.

But! Hard headed man partakes of the damned fruit anyway. Fast forward into the malignant future. What does man decide to do? He throws caution to the wind, cross pollinates the seeds of the original tree of good and evil to produce an even bigger tree with more dangerous fruit. And then he proceeds to gobble up the whole damn bushel. What a handful is man.

I suppose we can blame a woman for this one too. Detweiler's wife should have slapped him upside his damn head. Only a strong woman can stem the tide of a raging lunatic considering insane plans like... well... trying to kill off Honor. LOL

Quibble. Adam was forbidden to eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Innocence was lost when Adam and Eve realized the could disobey. The tree offered nothing to either but the realization they COULD disobey God. Once partaken, they found the knowledge of good and evil. Good in obeying god and evil is disobeying God.
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:59 am

cthia
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Joat42 wrote:
cthia wrote:..snip..
Many of us don't want a nuclear power plant in our own state or even a few states over, even now.

I do hope you don't live near any coal power plants then, because they actually emit radioactive isotopes continually. It's even worse if you live near a coal processing plant - they collectively in the US emit many hundreds of tons of uranium every year.

I'm not saying that nuclear power doesn't has it's problems, but there are other things that are worse that are swept under the rug.

To get back to the question of genetically bettering humanity, if it is done carefully and implemented for everyone it's unlikely you will get the problem with an "upper class" of citizens who believe they are better.

I understand why Beowulf overreacted because I know people in general are illogical creatures who don't take the time to think things through just because something bad happened and they feel the need to fix it NOW! Which only makes me understand Leonard Detweilers frustration better, because I too hate idiotic emotional knee jerk reactions from people.

And the thing about this worlds nuclear power and the final war super-soldiers in Honorverse is that their existence is due to the same exact cause. Power, preferably military.

The basis for most of the types of nuclear plants in use are twofold:
  1. Produce energy
  2. Produce isotopes than can be used in atomic weapons

The point is that unless we as humanity have the mental fortitude to stop the corruption of benign technologies for amassing power; whether it is military or political, we will see them used against people, again and again.

Technology in itself isn't evil, just how some sometimes use it.


Indeed Joat. I was aware of it. I think many people are. There was a "Problems with fossil fuels" episode on the boob-tube once upon a time ago. The problem of raising awareness and concern with that is two-fold I think.

1. Not in my own back yard.

2. Man is less concerned with dying a slow death than going out with a big bang. We are simply more afraid of big bangs. A nuclear power plant poses a great big bang of a problem which would kill all of us, at ground zero, at once. We don't fear the slow ride of death -- like puffing on cancer sticks called cigarettes, poisoning the atmosphere with pollutants, damaging the ozone layer, global warming, living under amassed power lines, etc. We can always procrastinate and delay the concern for fears that can only kill us tomorrow. Tomorrow isn't promised to us anyway.

Mankind is surely some kind of a man.

But! For those of us who do not know these things, again I ask...

If not Beowulf, who would be our keeper, when we cannot keep ourselves? The misaligned Alignment?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:43 am

cthia
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Slneezy wrote:
cthia wrote:As long as we consider that treecats are a sentient species much like two-legs in many respects. I think a lot of people sell them short. I seriously doubt that the correct mods are the be all and end all of bonding. The two-leg has to have the proper complement to go along with, such as the correct personality traits as well. I seriously doubt Pavel Young would have been bondable even if he had the perfect mods.



That's an interesting avenue for speculation.

What do treecats like in people? I mean Firebrand got adopted.

Could there be a treecat who'd like a Detweiler? Would Saint Just's methods of dealing with enemies earned him some grudging treecat approval? Is there a 'cat out there that would have been open to pushing papers with Innokentiy Kolokoltsov? Would a treecat have overlooked Gustav VI's habit of talking to rose bushes?

From what I remember 7 out of 9 Manticoran monarchs were after the first treecats slid their way into the royal family and treecats seem to be open to bonding with a wide variety of people.


Can you imagine the woes of Honor and the universe at large if Pavel Young would have become bonded? First off, I don't even wish to consider the type of cat that would find him tasty. The video snippet, IINM, did impart the notion that rogue treecats was not a fantasy. At any rate, Pavel Young was "hell on wheels" as we say. Can you imagine what he would have become if a cat sat atop his head who agrees with his disposition? What a copper-plated Ransom of a dynamic duo they'd be. I can imagine the treecat might begin to look rabid. Frothing at the mouth, coat unkempt, fat, lazy and hated by all other cats. Threatened by Nimitz.

I can't even imagine the name of a treecat that would bond with a Pavel Young. Any of the Youngins, for that matter. Oh I know. "Skunk!"

Hey, we were cheated. We could have had...

The Battle of Skunk and Stinker.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by Slneezy   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:41 am

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cthia wrote:Can you imagine the woes of Honor and the universe at large if Pavel Young would have become bonded? First off, I don't even wish to consider the type of cat that would find him tasty. The video snippet, IINM, did impart the notion that rogue treecats was not a fantasy. At any rate, Pavel Young was "hell on wheels" as we say. Can you imagine what he would have become if a cat sat atop his head who agrees with his disposition? What a copper-plated Ransom of a dynamic duo they'd be. I can imagine the treecat might begin to look rabid. Frothing at the mouth, coat unkempt, fat, lazy and hated by all other cats. Threatened by Nimitz.

I can't even imagine the name of a treecat that would bond with a Pavel Young. Any of the Youngins, for that matter. Oh I know. "Skunk!"

Hey, we were cheated. We could have had...

The Battle of Skunk and Stinker.


Hahaha...

More seriously though Pavel Young is probably the least likely person in the galaxy to bond to a treecat.

Denver Summervale could probably bond with a somewhat sociopathic treecat.

Pavel though... he's just so roundly cowardly, incompetent and useless that it is hard to believe any 'cat would tolerate him. The only thing made Pavel tolerate himself is his lack of introspection (until it was too late - he seemed to start figuring out how just how empty of a life he's lived was when his own brother gave him a cold shoulder at the dueling grounds).

Maybe in that moment of insight he'd be tolerable enough for a treecat... but by then it would be too late.

His father on the other hand might have been a more resonable candidate for 'cat adoption. Sure he's entitled - but also not retarded by his entitlement.
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:06 am

cthia
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Slneezy wrote:
cthia wrote:Can you imagine the woes of Honor and the universe at large if Pavel Young would have become bonded? First off, I don't even wish to consider the type of cat that would find him tasty. The video snippet, IINM, did impart the notion that rogue treecats was not a fantasy. At any rate, Pavel Young was "hell on wheels" as we say. Can you imagine what he would have become if a cat sat atop his head who agrees with his disposition? What a copper-plated Ransom of a dynamic duo they'd be. I can imagine the treecat might begin to look rabid. Frothing at the mouth, coat unkempt, fat, lazy and hated by all other cats. Threatened by Nimitz.

I can't even imagine the name of a treecat that would bond with a Pavel Young. Any of the Youngins, for that matter. Oh I know. "Skunk!"

Hey, we were cheated. We could have had...

The Battle of Skunk and Stinker.


Hahaha...

More seriously though Pavel Young is probably the least likely person in the galaxy to bond to a treecat.

Denver Summervale could probably bond with a somewhat sociopathic treecat.

Pavel though... he's just so roundly cowardly, incompetent and useless that it is hard to believe any 'cat would tolerate him. The only thing made Pavel tolerate himself is his lack of introspection (until it was too late - he seemed to start figuring out how just how empty of a life he's lived was when his own brother gave him a cold shoulder at the dueling grounds).

Maybe in that moment of insight he'd be tolerable enough for a treecat... but by then it would be too late.

His father on the other hand might have been a more resonable candidate for 'cat adoption. Sure he's entitled - but also not retarded by his entitlement.


Interesting. Your awareness of the "human element" applied to the cats is refreshing—for lack of a better term applied to the People.

We're certainly in agreement with the unlikelihood of his ever finding a cat. If he had, as I stated somewhere before, it probably would have become the shortest bond on record. ISTR someone once posting something about an already existing short bond on record. I can't recall the specifics.

I agree that Dimitri would have been the best choice of the Youngs, though not so certain a likely choice, either. It would have put the cat in the sphere of the youngins much too often.

Denver Summervale finding a mate also seems unlikely, IMO. Possible, yes, but he killed two-legs for the fun of it. Treecats aren't so keen on harming two-legs who aren't natural enemies. And if Summervale would have bonded before being hired to kill Honor, that would have represented one of the scenarios I laid out where treecats would have found themselves at odds—with every treecat in existence revering the Harringtons and Nimitz.

Now Georgia Sakristos might have been bondable, or any of her aliases. LOL

Which reminds me of a question I've always had whether some immediate timeframe after the bond allows the cat to become even more intimate with the two-leg, as far as whether they are indeed the right bonding choice. A grace period if you will. I also wonder whether a cat can discern split personalities...

<Hey, you're not the person I bonded with yesterday!>

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by cthia   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:52 am

cthia
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Oops, I forgot.

A sociopathic treecat is very interesting, by the very definition of anti|social, in a species who is very social. Seems they wouldn't want other cats in their head. Such a cat might even like Nimitz' handicap. But seeking a mate to be social with when you're anti-social? So many questions for a treecat "shrink" to tackle.

Sigmund Freud would have been in shrink heaven in the company of the Honorverse - what with all of the Detweilers and treecats and pleasure slaves and genies and oh my, to boot. LOL

Respecting the difference between psychology and psychiatry of course.

Again, very interesting and insightful concept SLneezy.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: UH SPOILERS Harrington family history
Post by George J. Smith   » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:02 pm

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I think the Youngs would be the type to try and dominate the bond, and ISTR something about a 'cat being capable of terminating the bond should that occur. I think it was in one of the anthologies but can't quite remember which one.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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