UH SPOILERS Harrington family history

cthia wrote:

Peregrinator wrote:If those alpha-line characteristics were on the same genes, yes. If not then no. And given that Mesan geneticists are among the best in the galaxy, they could certainly have figured out how to incorporate the best of the Meyerdahl mods without affecting their own alpha-line mods -- at least after a couple of centuries of experimentation.

I would think that the Harrington mods are on this side of the Beowulfan "Do not cross" road. Any further research beyond that point most probably would have been altered by the Malign, including unlocking the mods. Akin to unlocking an electronic device (iPhone) before tampering is possible.

Theemile wrote:Don't forget, the Beowulf code was created POST Earth's Final War. A lot of genetic experimenting was done prior to that point, in the open, and placed into the populace, which would now be considered Verboten.

True, however, Detweiler's insanity didn't commence until post Beowulf Code. That was the wild hair lodged up his bum that set him loose. I always imagined (with a grain of salt) that Detweiler built on the successes/failures that led to the Final Wars.

Improving on failures and righting mistakes. Seemingly righting mistakes. Allegedly righting mistakes. It's easy to do when your research is unrestricted and unregulated, whilst able to flush total failures down the drain while culling unacceptable near-failures.

Well, that's when the lion's share of his insanity began, anyway.

Note also the time frame, the alignment started ~1460, about 50 years before the Harrington's emigrated. Richard or Richard's parents may have been founding members of the alignment.

Likely in these early days one of the things they were doing was looking up promising existing mods that are now banned. So the Harrington mods likely were a starting point for development rather than a refined product.

At most Richard was a first generation Alpha, one of the first generation born into the alignment.

feyhunde wrote:Note also the time frame, the alignment started ~1460, about 50 years before the Harrington's emigrated. Richard or Richard's parents may have been founding members of the alignment.

Likely in these early days one of the things they were doing was looking up promising existing mods that are now banned. So the Harrington mods likely were a starting point for development rather than a refined product.

At most Richard was a first generation Alpha, one of the first generation born into the alignment.

One of the ironies that we don't know what exactly was banned. Yes, using non-humans, but aside from some of the pleasure slaves and Dr. Sying-yi, that didn't go too far.

Chances are a lot of the mods the Harringtons had were compatible with the Meyerdahl B set.

And I don't know how heavily the Meyerdahl B's attracted treecats. Yes, Honor was adopted but none of her family members until her kids were adopted as far as we know.

And a lot of other people were adopted who did not have the Meyerdahl set. And if it was people with just the A line genes, MAlign could have simply sent a lot of them to "study" in Sphynx.

Making the full disclosure that I have not read the book and do not plan to do so until it's published, I find myself not believing the claim. I'm not sure why, but I don't think it passes the smell test. What does anyone have to gain by making such an assertion about the Harrington family? Is there any real basis for the notion apart from the Detweilers assertion???

Don

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n7axw wrote:Making the full disclosure that I have not read the book and do not plan to do so until it's published, I find myself not believing the claim. I'm not sure why, but I don't think it passes the smell test. What does anyone have to gain by making such an assertion about the Harrington family? Is there any real basis for the notion apart from the Detweilers assertion???

Don

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Don't want to give anything serious away, but given the context, there's no reason so assume it's not true (or at least that the Detweiler in question believes it to be true). The company that the Detweiler was with, and the fact that the info was conveyed as his internal monologue and not dialogue to another character both point towards it being legit info RFC wanted to convey to the reader.

cthia wrote:
True, however, Detweiler's insanity didn't commence until post Beowulf Code. That was the wild hair lodged up his bum that set him loose. I always imagined (with a grain of salt) that Detweiler built on the successes/failures that led to the Final Wars.

Improving on failures and righting mistakes. Seemingly righting mistakes. Allegedly righting mistakes. It's easy to do when your research is unrestricted and unregulated, whilst able to flush total failures down the drain while culling unacceptable near-failures.

Well, that's when the lion's share of his insanity began, anyway.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Detweiler as insane.

Sure the whole Alignment super-conspiracy plan is a tad crazy. However there's some decent points about pursuing science unrestricted - look at how innovative the Alignment is for example.

To take another case: is Honor's success primarily related to having some Alpha genes in the mix? Probably not. Did it help? Oh, yes it did. She'd be dead a dozen of times over if she didn't have superior reflexes and strength for example.


Not everything Detweiler did was good - but it is pretty hard to dispute that he had some very valid points.

ldwechsler wrote:And I don't know how heavily the Meyerdahl B's attracted treecats. Yes, Honor was adopted but none of her family members until her kids were adopted as far as we know.

And a lot of other people were adopted who did not have the Meyerdahl set. And if it was people with just the A line genes, MAlign could have simply sent a lot of them to "study" in Sphynx.

O.o "None of her family"?

They mention several times that the Harringtons, as a line/clain, have been adopted more than any other on Sphinx over the years. Yes, she's the only one CURRENTLY adopted, but her ancestress was the first, also.

And yes plenty without the Myerdahl mods have been adopted, it's just been noted that the mods seem to make it more likely.

Also, a number of Myerdahlians moved to Sphinx when the Harringtons did.

Rajani Isa wrote:O.o "None of her family"?

They mention several times that the Harringtons, as a line/clain, have been adopted more than any other on Sphinx over the years. Yes, she's the only one CURRENTLY adopted, but her ancestress was the first, also.

And yes plenty without the Myerdahl mods have been adopted, it's just been noted that the mods seem to make it more likely.

Also, a number of Myerdahlians moved to Sphinx when the Harringtons did.

Good point. I might also add that The Wintons are also heavily modded, their specific mods being a state secret. Not sure which family boasts the most adoptions.

But that brings up another long simmering question: Why was Honor targeted for nano-assassination by Albrecht? he even commented on it after Zilwicki & Cachat showed back up. ven though Aldonna warned him it was a bad idea he still thought it was a worthwhile endeavor. Was that merely because she was the pre-eminent commander, or that she was a lost alpha line.

Slneezy wrote:

cthia wrote:
True, however, Detweiler's insanity didn't commence until post Beowulf Code. That was the wild hair lodged up his bum that set him loose. I always imagined (with a grain of salt) that Detweiler built on the successes/failures that led to the Final Wars.

Improving on failures and righting mistakes. Seemingly righting mistakes. Allegedly righting mistakes. It's easy to do when your research is unrestricted and unregulated, whilst able to flush total failures down the drain while culling unacceptable near-failures.

Well, that's when the lion's share of his insanity began, anyway.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss Detweiler as insane.

Sure the whole Alignment super-conspiracy plan is a tad crazy. However there's some decent points about pursuing science unrestricted - look at how innovative the Alignment is for example.

To take another case: is Honor's success primarily related to having some Alpha genes in the mix? Probably not. Did it help? Oh, yes it did. She'd be dead a dozen of times over if she didn't have superior reflexes and strength for example.

Not everything Detweiler did was good - but it is pretty hard to dispute that he had some very valid points.

I think RFC touched upon this, the Detweilers and the top echelons of the MAlign isn't crazy, it's just that they live in an echo chamber and that tends to decouple peoples reasoning from the real world and it only can get worse as time passes.

As someone pointed out a long time ago, if Detweiler instead tried to sway people to their idea of enhancing humanity with a long running PR-campaign they would have won several hundred years ago and the Honorverse would be a very different place.

ldwechsler wrote:

feyhunde wrote:Note also the time frame, the alignment started ~1460, about 50 years before the Harrington's emigrated. Richard or Richard's parents may have been founding members of the alignment.

Likely in these early days one of the things they were doing was looking up promising existing mods that are now banned. So the Harrington mods likely were a starting point for development rather than a refined product.

At most Richard was a first generation Alpha, one of the first generation born into the alignment.

One of the ironies that we don't know what exactly was banned. Yes, using non-humans, but aside from some of the pleasure slaves and Dr. Sying-yi, that didn't go too far.

Chances are a lot of the mods the Harringtons had were compatible with the Meyerdahl B set.

And I don't know how heavily the Meyerdahl B's attracted treecats. Yes, Honor was adopted but none of her family members until her kids were adopted as far as we know.

And a lot of other people were adopted who did not have the Meyerdahl set. And if it was people with just the A line genes, MAlign could have simply sent a lot of them to "study" in Sphynx.

As long as we consider that treecats are a sentient species much like two-legs in many respects. I think a lot of people sell them short. I seriously doubt that the correct mods are the be all and end all of bonding. The two-leg has to have the proper complement to go along with, such as the correct personality traits as well. I seriously doubt Pavel Young would have been bondable even if he had the perfect mods.

Reminds me of something I once told a girl in high school. "You have to have something else going for you than simply being blonde and beautiful."

No offense to beautiful, blue-eyed blondes, of course.

It appears they prefer Meyerdahl B to blondes, brunettes or hot redheads. But that'll only get you a date. LOL