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Princess Cruises

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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:31 pm

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pappilon wrote:
Yes Mateo was aboard Gauntlet, yes Mateo was with her on Refuge's surface. However he was a RM marine attached as her escort (to keep the snotty from giving away homeworld), not a member of Owens Steading Security. And only he and Abigail's father know how that transfer happened, and they're not talking.


I'm sure the Commandant does as well, since he had to sign off on Mateo's release from active duty.
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by pappilon   » Tue May 01, 2018 7:31 am

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Fox2! wrote:
pappilon wrote:
Yes Mateo was aboard Gauntlet, yes Mateo was with her on Refuge's surface. However he was a RM marine attached as her escort (to keep the snotty from giving away homeworld), not a member of Owens Steading Security. And only he and Abigail's father know how that transfer happened, and they're not talking.


I'm sure the Commandant does as well, since he had to sign off on Mateo's release from active duty.


He was in on the conversation that ...persuaded Mateo to resign his commission with the RMMC and take up a position in the Owen Steading Guard? I doubt it. all he did is sign off on paperwork. Admiral Yanakov probably was involved as well as was QE III. But none of them were privy to the discussion between Mateo and Daddy Owens-Hearns. And once that decision was negotiated, Mateo was not a part of the intricacies of diplomacy and military maneuvering required to make the new requirements of a guard for Steading heirs .

I'm sure Steadholder Owen's first move was to contact Yanakov to start the negotiations with Mateo and set up the proper appointments with QE and whomever in the military to sort things out. Probably Benjamin was involved too. No simple process. But again, whatever it took to cnvince Mateo was strictly mano a mano.
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by PeterZ   » Tue May 01, 2018 11:49 am

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pappilon wrote:
He was in on the conversation that ...persuaded Mateo to resign his commission with the RMMC and take up a position in the Owen Steading Guard? I doubt it. all he did is sign off on paperwork. Admiral Yanakov probably was involved as well as was QE III. But none of them were privy to the discussion between Mateo and Daddy Owens-Hearns. And once that decision was negotiated, Mateo was not a part of the intricacies of diplomacy and military maneuvering required to make the new requirements of a guard for Steading heirs .

I'm sure Steadholder Owen's first move was to contact Yanakov to start the negotiations with Mateo and set up the proper appointments with QE and whomever in the military to sort things out. Probably Benjamin was involved too. No simple process. But again, whatever it took to cnvince Mateo was strictly mano a mano.


Yes, the conversatrion was direct and personal. The argument is simple. "Mateo, my daughter needs to learn the trade of a naval officer," says Lord Owen. "She is obligated to have an armsman. What Grayson armsman can guide her in her professional duties while protecting her? Anyone who hasn't worked as closely with the RMN as a marine couldn't guide her. Anyone not a marine or armsman couldn't protect her. Anyone who doesn't know her wouldn't protect her nearly as well as one who does know her," he finishes.

"So tell me Mateo. Will you take this commission as my armsman? Will you let her become the best officer she can become or let someone else guard her? Someone who either can't protect her or can't help her nearly as much as you can. Will you take up the age old duty of any NCO worth his salt and turn a promissing ensign into an officer worthy of the men and women she leads?"
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by CmdrAthenaAprilist   » Tue May 01, 2018 1:52 pm

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pappilon wrote:
That being the case, then since Rachel cannot be the prince, cannot inherit the Sword, she is still just a girl. No body guard, no special privileges beyond her treecat.



Dammit, will you stop calling her a girl; if she's old enough to go off to the Academy she's a woman! A young woman, true, but definitely of age! Whether she gets an Armsman or not, is in line for the Protectorship or not, whether she's called "Miss Mayhew" or not, she's gonna be learning how to commit mayhem both wholesale and retail and deserves to be referred to as an adult.
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by PeterZ   » Tue May 01, 2018 2:01 pm

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CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:
pappilon wrote:
That being the case, then since Rachel cannot be the prince, cannot inherit the Sword, she is still just a girl. No body guard, no special privileges beyond her treecat.



Dammit, will you stop calling her a girl; if she's old enough to go off to the Academy she's a woman! A young woman, true, but definitely of age! Whether she gets an Armsman or not, is in line for the Protectorship or not, whether she's called "Miss Mayhew" or not, she's gonna be learning how to commit mayhem both wholesale and retail and deserves to be referred to as an adult.


Does the Protector have to be Steadholder Mayhew? They have been, but if the criteria for succession of Steadholders are now different than that of the Protector, won't that mean Rachael may have a place in the Mayhew Steading succession whithout ever having a place as heir to the Protectorship.

Might this potential conflict not be a backdoor for females inheriting the Protectorship down the road? In any case, that alone might make Rachael a true Princess.
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by pappilon   » Tue May 01, 2018 2:44 pm

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pappilon wrote:
That being the case, then since Rachel cannot be the prince, cannot inherit the Sword, she is still just a girl. No body guard, no special privileges beyond her treecat.



CmdrAthenaAprilist wrote:Dammit, will you stop calling her a girl; if she's old enough to go off to the Academy she's a woman! A young woman, true, but definitely of age! Whether she gets an Armsman or not, is in line for the Protectorship or not, whether she's called "Miss Mayhew" or not, she's gonna be learning how to commit mayhem both wholesale and retail and deserves to be referred to as an adult.


Maybe, once Grayson Society generally quits treating women like well...children aka girls. probably when the conservative Keys croak and their more liberal male spawn inherit.

Our Miss Owes does not get a guard but her younger siblings do. Why? Because as a female she is not important enough to protect. then, after taking on a hundred or so pirates, she is not entitled to, until she became eligible to inherit Daddy's Demesne.

But Our Miss Mayhew can not inhwrit her daddy's Sword, she is not important enough to protect, she is still a second class citizen, she is still a girl. Be mad at Grayson's keys for making the rules. I'm just the humble thorn.

PeterZ wrote:Does the Protector have to be Steadholder Mayhew? They have been, but if the criteria for succession of Steadholders are now different than that of the Protector, won't that mean Rachael may have a place in the Mayhew Steading succession whithout ever having a place as heir to the Protectorship.

Might this potential conflict not be a backdoor for females inheriting the Protectorship down the road? In any case, that alone might make Rachael a true Princess.



I am under the impression from a previous post that Key Mayhew is rhe equivalent of Prince of Wales ie the heir apparrent to the Sword/Crown. So, the laws of inheritance, revised, clearly state the Keys may be inherited by a female person, but the Mayhew Key/steading/Demesne/whatever is the exception to the rule.
munroburton wrote:The Mayhew Steading isn't separate from the Sword. IIRC, 'Steadholder Mayhew' is a courtesy role carried by the Protector's heir. Kind of like the UK's 'Prince of Wales'.


Based on that interpretation, I would say no. again the fullpost is a few up from here.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by PeterZ   » Tue May 01, 2018 3:05 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Does the Protector have to be Steadholder Mayhew? They have been, but if the criteria for succession of Steadholders are now different than that of the Protector, won't that mean Rachael may have a place in the Mayhew Steading succession whithout ever having a place as heir to the Protectorship.

Might this potential conflict not be a backdoor for females inheriting the Protectorship down the road? In any case, that alone might make Rachael a true Princess.
pappilon wrote:I am under the impression from a previous post that Key Mayhew is rhe equivalent of Prince of Wales ie the heir apparrent to the Sword/Crown. So, the laws of inheritance, revised, clearly state the Keys may be inherited by a female person, but the Mayhew Key/steading/Demesne/whatever is the exception to the rule.

munroburton wrote:The Mayhew Steading isn't separate from the Sword. IIRC, 'Steadholder Mayhew' is a courtesy role carried by the Protector's heir. Kind of like the UK's 'Prince of Wales'.
pappilon wrote:
Based on that interpretation, I would say no. again the fullpost is a few up from here.


Now we enter thegray area of Grayson legal interpretation. Was this interpretation codified in written law or codified in "iron clad" tradition? Sort of like the Mayhew Restoration relied on a legal interpretation of traditional precident to return power to the Protector.

My point is that should the interpretation be sufficiently traditional, this may well be the backdoor I suggestsed it was.
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by Fox2!   » Tue May 01, 2018 8:31 pm

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pappilon wrote:
He was in on the conversation that ...persuaded Mateo to resign his commission with the RMMC and take up a position in the Owen Steading Guard?


As a Sargeant, Mateo was a Non-Commissioned Officer. He didn't have a Commission (or a Warrant, for that matter) to resign.

As one of the NCOs at the AFROTC Detachment at school reminded us, "Don't call me 'Sir'. I work for a living."
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by pappilon   » Wed May 02, 2018 3:24 am

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Fox2! wrote:
pappilon wrote:
He was in on the conversation that ...persuaded Mateo to resign his commission with the RMMC and take up a position in the Owen Steading Guard?


As a Sargeant, Mateo was a Non-Commissioned Officer. He didn't have a Commission (or a Warrant, for that matter) to resign.

As one of the NCOs at the AFROTC Detachment at school reminded us, "Don't call me 'Sir'. I work for a living."



Unless his enlistment just happened to be up and he was free to resign, something had to be accommodated. He ain't a worker, he just can't quit, exigincies of the Queen and all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Princess Cruises
Post by Fox2!   » Thu May 03, 2018 11:46 pm

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pappilon wrote: snip
pappilon wrote:
He was in on the conversation that ...persuaded Mateo to resign his commission with the RMMC and take up a position in the Owen Steading Guard?


(snipping myself)

Unless his enlistment just happened to be up and he was free to resign, something had to be accommodated. He ain't a worker, he just can't quit, exigincies of the Queen and all.


That's why the Commandant had to be involved, and probably at least a gentle push from Beth. "Make it happen," says the Queen. And that becomes, "An exigency of the Queen". Sgt Mateo of the RMMC becomes Lt. Mateo of the Owens Steadholder's Guard. No muss, no fuss, credit for retirement carried over. Q.E.D.
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