Spoiler!!... Mycroft and UH

JohnRoth wrote:..snip..
"Raw data" is generally digitized the same way music is digitized, and it's analyzed using a lot of different pattern spotting programs.

Funny fact about digitizing and compressing music, if we are talking about MP3's the compression algorithm actually removes some sounds during the compression stage. This is because how our hearing functions mechanically coupled with how the brain interprets sounds and is called psycho acoustic modelling.

pappilon wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:
Nobody uses the good old Eyeball Mark I to look at that data unless they're either bored out of their minds for something to do or they're doing manual checks on some piece of equipment - and even then, it would be rare.

"Raw data" is generally digitized the same way music is digitized, and it's analyzed using a lot of different pattern spotting programs.

The filters that are looking for wedge signatures and the filters that are looking for FTL communications will discard anything that doesn't fit their criteria. Generic pattern analyzers will find the Spider Drive signature - if it's there.

The Hunt for Red October wrote:The computer would be confused and identify it as a geologic anamoly

So how does the computer actually do what it does with "extraneous" data if there is no macro sifting through this stuff that does not fit its logic constraints? Is it actually saved as raw data or sifted out and just dumped?

Sounds like some bored tech running targeting solutions on all the freighters in orbit around Kornati would have to be listening to data coming in from all the ghost rider platforms for like a month before the actual SLN attack.

I suspect it's kept for some time, because I've got a vague memory of someone going back through it to firm up "ghost" signatures. I doubt if it would be kept for very long, however: warships are not research vessels. To follow up on KZT's comment, the packet data they save for a month isn't raw data that comes off the wire (fiber, wireless, etc.). It's already been digitized and further processed into IP packets.

As far as the Kornati analysis, that wasn't raw sensor data. That was processed data for aircar travel, and what the tech found was a rabbit hole: a lot of flights wound up somewhere and didn't leave, and there didn't seem to be anything there.

pappilon wrote:

JohnRoth wrote:
Nobody uses the good old Eyeball Mark I to look at that data unless they're either bored out of their minds for something to do or they're doing manual checks on some piece of equipment - and even then, it would be rare.

"Raw data" is generally digitized the same way music is digitized, and it's analyzed using a lot of different pattern spotting programs.

The filters that are looking for wedge signatures and the filters that are looking for FTL communications will discard anything that doesn't fit their criteria. Generic pattern analyzers will find the Spider Drive signature - if it's there.

The Hunt for Red October wrote:The computer would be confused and identify it as a geologic anamoly

So how does the computer actually do what it does with "extraneous" data if there is no macro sifting through this stuff that does not fit its logic constraints? Is it actually saved as raw data or sifted out and just dumped?

Sounds like some bored tech running targeting solutions on all the freighters in orbit around Kornati would have to be listening to data coming in from all the ghost rider platforms for like a month before the actual SLN attack.

Probably you shift the parameters so that the computer looks for different information.

Don

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At some point, students will be exposed to raw data and told to find the whatevers.

If I were ONI I'd sneak the raw take from where I suspected spider drive ships had operated into those courses.

Annachie wrote:At some point, students will be exposed to raw data and told to find the whatevers.

If I were ONI I'd sneak the raw take from where I suspected spider drive ships had operated into those courses.

Again most of the recent stuff id from Beowulf and that is take from the RDs. Which brings us back again to do the computers just 86 the "noise" before sending it back via grav wave to save bandwidth? Is the noise not 86ed but actually saved to memory log on the RD's computer? There may not be any saved record of that oh so useful data.

pappilon wrote:

Annachie wrote:At some point, students will be exposed to raw data and told to find the whatevers.

If I were ONI I'd sneak the raw take from where I suspected spider drive ships had operated into those courses.

Again most of the recent stuff id from Beowulf and that is take from the RDs. Which brings us back again to do the computers just 86 the "noise" before sending it back via grav wave to save bandwidth? Is the noise not 86ed but actually saved to memory log on the RD's computer? There may not be any saved record of that oh so useful data.

If we are talking about any signals that are picked up by an RD's sensorsuite I would say that anything that's not buried in noise would be sent along for further analysis if the RD can't classify it.

The question remains though, does the spider drive produce a signal which can be detected and analyzed?

I had an idea that you could sync all the RD's in a system so they form one vast sensor suite array, that way you would increase the sensitivity several magnitudes.

The idea is to take the raw sensor signals and then use the same concept as with radio telescope arrays or phased arrays, you combine the signals. In essence it becomes a very big phased array.

pappilon wrote:

Annachie wrote:At some point, students will be exposed to raw data and told to find the whatevers.

If I were ONI I'd sneak the raw take from where I suspected spider drive ships had operated into those courses.

Again most of the recent stuff id from Beowulf and that is take from the RDs. Which brings us back again to do the computers just 86 the "noise" before sending it back via grav wave to save bandwidth? Is the noise not 86ed but actually saved to memory log on the RD's computer? There may not be any saved record of that oh so useful data.

As far as I know, most analysis units don't create a separate "noise" output since the original signal is still intact. While it's easy enough to create a residual signal by removing the data from the original signal, there's usually no point - a different analysis would start with the original signal, or at least as close to it as they can get.

To paraphrase a gardener who once tried to tell me the difference between a plant and a weed, the difference between signal and noise depends on what you're looking for.

Annachie wrote:At some point, students will be exposed to raw data and told to find the whatevers.

If I were ONI I'd sneak the raw take from where I suspected spider drive ships had operated into those courses.

pappilon wrote:Again most of the recent stuff id from Beowulf and that is take from the RDs. Which brings us back again to do the computers just 86 the "noise" before sending it back via grav wave to save bandwidth? Is the noise not 86ed but actually saved to memory log on the RD's computer? There may not be any saved record of that oh so useful data.

Joat42 wrote:If we are talking about any signals that are picked up by an RD's sensorsuite I would say that anything that's not buried in noise would be sent along for further analysis if the RD can't classify it.

The question remains though, does the spider drive produce a signal which can be detected and analyzed?

I had an idea that you could sync all the RD's in a system so they form one vast sensor suite array, that way you would increase the sensitivity several magnitudes.

The idea is to take the raw sensor signals and then use the same concept as with radio telescope arrays or phased arrays, you combine the signals. In essence it becomes a very big phased array.

These things are military units: if it's outside their parameters, they ignore it. They are not research units, which would probably keep any scrap of sensor data they could.

As far as whether or not a spider drive can be detected, the answer is yes. The MAN can do it with great difficulty if the spider drive is active close enough.

Remember, we're not just talking RD's

We're talking the systems primary gravitic detectors.
Both Beowulf's, Manticore's, and Grayson's.

Annachie wrote:Remember, we're not just talking RD's

We're talking the systems primary gravitic detectors.
Both Beowulf's, Manticore's, and Grayson's.

Yes we are which does not make any difference. IIRC the passives sit out there looking for the signal of a wedge translating down from H-space to N-space. It picks up lots of signals which do not meet the parameters of its computer programming parameters. if it picks upsome thing questionable it still passes it on to the humans. Some signals are called ghosts. I really do get that.

As someone pointed out these are not research (think SETI)installations but primarily military ones. There is no textev except for a slap-dash about Pat Givens and the boys and girls at ONI going over every availablebit of sensor information for months before the attack.

So I guess my question is, what is actually available? every grumbe from sun spots or flares? More or less than that? Everything that tweaks the receptors? I'm just wondering and there are no real definitive answers.