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The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.

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The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by Henry Brown   » Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:29 pm

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Well when 4 of the mandarins were arrested at the end of UH, none of them dropped dead. Which was a bit of a surprise to me, I had figured some of them might be part of the MALIGN. However, it did note that Agatá Wodoslawski had vanished. I wonder if that means that she was a MALIGN operative? Or if she is just trying to escape?
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by TangoLima   » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:39 pm

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I experienced the same surprise(s).
It would make sense for at least one of the mandarins
to be a direct(ed) MAlignment agent.
I don't doubt that all of them had monetary and influence
strings attached. Most probably indirect and with many
cutouts. Unraveling it would make a good thriller/mystery
or at least a infodump at some point.
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by kzt   » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:35 am

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TangoLima wrote:I experienced the same surprise(s).
It would make sense for at least one of the mandarins
to be a direct(ed) MAlignment agent.
I don't doubt that all of them had monetary and influence
strings attached. Most probably indirect and with many
cutouts. Unraveling it would make a good thriller/mystery
or at least a infodump at some point.


While you could easily believe that James Buchanan was a secret agent of the nascent CSA, the evidence is he just an arrogant fool. One occupying a critical position. So no, you don't have to be a spy or a paid agent of an enemy to do the worst possible thing.

As another example I chose General Kurt Ferdinand Friedrich Hermann von Schleicher. Who was instrumental both destroying German democracy and in getting Adolph Hitler appointed Chancellor, and was murdered by Hitlers SS 17 months later.

Or Franz von Papen, who got Hitler appointed to frustrate von Schleicher. von Schleicher was also the man who get von Papen into a position to argue that "In two months we'll have pushed Hitler so far into the corner that he'll squeal." It turned out he was slightly overconfident. :roll:

Most people would find unbelievable the true story of various intriguers and decisions that brought Adolph Hitler to power if it was the plot of a novel.
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by pappilon   » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:49 am

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kzt wrote:
TangoLima wrote:I experienced the same surprise(s).
It would make sense for at least one of the mandarins
to be a direct(ed) MAlignment agent.
I don't doubt that all of them had monetary and influence
strings attached. Most probably indirect and with many
cutouts. Unraveling it would make a good thriller/mystery
or at least a infodump at some point.


While you could easily believe that James Buchanan was a secret agent of the nascent CSA, the evidence is he just an arrogant fool. One occupying a critical position. So no, you don't have to be a spy or a paid agent of an enemy to do the worst possible thing.

As another example I chose General Kurt Ferdinand Friedrich Hermann von Schleicher. Who was instrumental both destroying German democracy and in getting Adolph Hitler appointed Chancellor, and was murdered by Hitlers SS 17 months later.

Or Franz von Papen, who got Hitler appointed to frustrate von Schleicher. von Schleicher was also the man who get von Papen into a position to argue that "In two months we'll have pushed Hitler so far into the corner that he'll squeal." It turned out he was slightly overconfident. :roll:

Most people would find unbelievable the true story of various intriguers and decisions that brought Adolph Hitler to power if it was the plot of a novel.


Reminiscent of a certain Manticoran member of the High Ridge gov't. that took off on a 3 hour cruise never to be seen again. Certainly --intriguing. A loose end we will never again find in the haystack.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by DrakBibliophile   » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:40 am

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IIRC There was a comment by one Mesan that that "loose end" had been dealt with.

IE She escaped Manticoran Justice but didn't escape the Mesans. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

pappilon wrote:
Reminiscent of a certain Manticoran member of the High Ridge gov't. that took off on a 3 hour cruise never to be seen again. Certainly --intriguing. A loose end we will never again find in the haystack.
*
Paul Howard (Alias Drak Bibliophile)
*
Sometimes The Dragon Wins! [Polite Dragon Smile]
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by pappilon   » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:52 am

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DrakBibliophile wrote:IIRC There was a comment by one Mesan that that "loose end" had been dealt with.

IE She escaped Manticoran Justice but didn't escape the Mesans. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

pappilon wrote:
Reminiscent of a certain Manticoran member of the High Ridge gov't. that took off on a 3 hour cruise never to be seen again. Certainly --intriguing. A loose end we will never again find in the haystack.



Sure, Earl Hairsplitter. We know that, the MAlign knows that, Nobody else in the whole entire Honorverse knows that. and the people who actually did the deed are probably feeding the fish themselves.

Maybe they'll find her drowned in her bathtub, or stuffed in a cargo container in some loading dock in Lower Slobbovia. Probably not.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by Eagleeye   » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:13 am

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If memory serves, Agata Wodoslawski was the last addition to the batch of Mandarins the Manties had to ... convince to see things like they are (and not like they want them to be). And if memory serves further, the events which led to the passing of her predecessor were ... at least as suspicious, lets say, as Rajampets suicide.

So, it is possible, maybe even probable, that AW was (or is - in case she's still alive), in fact, a MAlign-mole. Maybe even something more than a simple mole. To be really effective she should know about the goals of the MAlign at least at the same level as, say, McBride. Maybe not as well as Bardasano, but McBride ... yeah.

And if she was/is a mole (or even a member of the onion) ... well, either she has a bolthole of her own - and used the opportunity to get there in time to avoid being catched. Or she was suicided by her own nanotech as soon as it was obvious that the game for the Mandarins was over.

I like the first version more, because in this case she (That is Agata Wodoslawski) could be the core of at least a future short novel.
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Re: The Mandarins. Uncompromising Honor spoilers.
Post by pappilon   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:21 pm

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Eagleeye wrote:If memory serves, Agata Wodoslawski was the last addition to the batch of Mandarins the Manties had to ... convince to see things like they are (and not like they want them to be). And if memory serves further, the events which led to the passing of her predecessor were ... at least as suspicious, lets say, as Rajampets suicide.

So, it is possible, maybe even probable, that AW was (or is - in case she's still alive), in fact, a MAlign-mole. Maybe even something more than a simple mole. To be really effective she should know about the goals of the MAlign at least at the same level as, say, McBride. Maybe not as well as Bardasano, but McBride ... yeah.

And if she was/is a mole (or even a member of the onion) ... well, either she has a bolthole of her own - and used the opportunity to get there in time to avoid being catched. Or she was suicided by her own nanotech as soon as it was obvious that the game for the Mandarins was over.

I like the first version more, because in this case she (That is Agata Wodoslawski) could be the core of at least a future short novel.


No argument. Your analyses are superb. She could have had her own streak drive "luxury yacht" under a false name, with her own false ID papers ready to go at a moment's notice and be, even now, safe and warm on her way to Daruis, Hammerwell's Rite of Sphinxian Spring playing softly in the background.

Or she could just as easily be in the cellar of her private elevator shaft. Oops the doors slid open but there was no elevator car. Since we are speculating.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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