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Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoilers?)

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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by SYED   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:42 pm

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The Felix junction is said to have four terminii. One is definitly to Darius. Then there is the twins anomaly. The comment about a terminii to the haven quadrant, was made kind of vaguely. The impression I got was the terminii leading to torch was seperate from the potential haven quadrant. While torch is not that far from haven, it seems to me, it is just too far to be included in that quadrant. Erewhon is their neighbor and there was never any mention of them being in the haven quadrant..
The HQ likely has been claimed in total by the republic.

How old is the torch system? I could see the evil haven guys going after it for the potential revenue, and it was never a league member. And they are known for their anti slavery standing. So torch likely was discover, founded or develop some time after the war had officially began.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by Annachie   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:53 pm

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Felix is conected to Darius and the twins, and via the twins to Torch.

The other two haven't been revealed yet.


Side note, did we ever discuss the twins being a Felix-Torch wormhole route that had a star drift into it and break it?
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:57 pm

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SYED wrote:The Felix junction is said to have four terminii. One is definitly to Darius. Then there is the twins anomaly. The comment about a terminii to the haven quadrant, was made kind of vaguely. The impression I got was the terminii leading to torch was seperate from the potential haven quadrant. While torch is not that far from haven, it seems to me, it is just too far to be included in that quadrant. Erewhon is their neighbor and there was never any mention of them being in the haven quadrant..
The HQ likely has been claimed in total by the republic.

How old is the torch system? I could see the evil haven guys going after it for the potential revenue, and it was never a league member. And they are known for their anti slavery standing. So torch likely was discover, founded or develop some time after the war had officially began.


From my files:

on 4/14/2014 RFC wrote:There were three primary reasons for the decision to colonize Congo:

(1) The security of the wormhole had to be safeguarded at any cost, and that meant keeping anyone else from discovering and exploring it. Given the fact that it was in such close proximity to Erewhon, that it was a star system which was likely to have a life-bearing planet, that exploration would undoubtedly get around to checking that out as soon as Erewhon had the opportunity, and that it is now to check stars' gravitic profiles for possible wormholes, the only way to prevent someone else from exploring the wormhole was to secure ownership of the star system for themselves.

(2) Once they surveyed the system themselves, they recognized the pharmaceutical cornucopia that Congo/Verdant Vista represented. They also realized that anyone else who surveyed the system was likely to recognize the same thing, which meant that anyone else who surveyed the system (and somehow missed spotting the wormhole) was extremely likely to colonize/claim the planet because of its inherent value. By establishing their own claim to it ASAP, they preempted that outcome.

(3) By securing control of the system, they also secured the right to police and control all traffic into and out of the system. That put them in the strongest position to ensure (A) that no one had the opportunity to discover anything about wormholes that they weren't supposed to discover and (B) to manage the system's traffic control in a way which would preclude someone from "stumbling across" a Mesan Alignment ship transiting the wormhole.

They could have used a different front organization to seize control of the star system. They chose not to because every additional layer they worked through offered an additional opportunity for something to slip through the cracks and (more importantly) because Mesa was so repugnant to most of the galaxy and such a pariah that legitimate shipping was extremely unlikely to come anywhere near a Mesa-claimed star system. That was another major factor in controlling access to the wormhole junction and the possibility of a genuinely neutral observer seeing something he shouldn't see.

Now, it can certainly be argued that the decision worked out . . . poorly, but to be fair that was because of circumstances beyond the Alignment's control, including a rogue Havenite intelligence officer and a Manticoran aristocrat willing to kick over the traces and pursue a policy he could be pretty sure wasn't going to make his own government happy. And, of course, the turn the war took with the introduction of the MDM and (especially) Apollo hadn't happened yet when they made their decision about how to proceed in Verdant Vista's case.


I believe the Felix Junction was surveyed approximately 200 years before book time. I don't know when Mesa Pharmaceuticals claimed it, but Erewhon didn't get interested in it until there was a planted rumor that it had a junction with three termini. How Congo became Torch is the focus of Crown of Slaves.

I don't know of any textev about when the MAlign actually acquired Congo and claimed the system, but I think it was probably well before the Haven-Manticore war started.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:59 pm

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Annachie wrote:Felix is conected to Darius and the twins, and via the twins to Torch.

The other two haven't been revealed yet.


Side note, did we ever discuss the twins being a Felix-Torch wormhole route that had a star drift into it and break it?


I don't remember that as being discussed, but it does seem rather obvious. In fact, I think that was an "invisible" retcon to put a cutout between Felix and Torch.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:04 pm

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Annachie wrote:Felix is conected to Darius and the twins, and via the twins to Torch.

The other two haven't been revealed yet.


The locations of the termini haven't been specified, but there is an off-hand comment about the Jessyk Combine using the two "non-malign" termini on a very occasional basis as a shortcut for slave deliveries.

there are really only two sources for navigational data through the Felix WHJ; selected ships of the Jessyk Combine, and select ship of the Mannerheim SDF that have Mesan Alignment Navy (aka MAlign) crews.

The Jessyk ships probably do NOT have any nav data for the Twins and only a very few would have data for Darius.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by SYED   » Wed Apr 11, 2018 12:29 am

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Do you remember which book mentioned that Jessyk ships using the two non malign terminii? That would imply the unknown one and the one believed to go to the HQ. That seems risky, as haven is known as anti slavery..

There was this space amusement park being used as a trap for slave ships. The Malignment has no idea it exists or a threat. So it is possible that the right ship could be captured. They might not know Darius or the twins, but they would have Felix.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Apr 11, 2018 2:49 am

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Annachie wrote:Felix is conected to Darius and the twins, and via the twins to Torch.

The other two haven't been revealed yet.


Side note, did we ever discuss the twins being a Felix-Torch wormhole route that had a star drift into it and break it?


I seem to remember there were some posts, but whether they were in regard to textev or just speculation by posters I couldn't say.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:59 am

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SYED wrote:Do you remember which book mentioned that Jessyk ships using the two non malign terminii? That would imply the unknown one and the one believed to go to the HQ. That seems risky, as haven is known as anti slavery..


Most of the information on the Felix Wormhole is in Torch of Freedom:

Torch of Freedom
Chapter Fifty wrote:
Obviously, no one had ever predicted that any such thing [The Twins] was possible. In fact, the Alignment had literally stumbled across it in the course of surveying the wormhole junction associated with the Felix System, where Trajan's task force was currently exercising. Not that the galaxy at large had any idea of that junction's existence, either. It had been discovered initially by a survey expedition backed by the "Jessyk Combine" and operating (very surreptitiously) out of Mannerheim under direct orders from the Alignment. Jessyk never shared survey information with anyone unless there was an excellent reason for it to do so, and in this case the Alignment had decided there was an excellent reason not to broadcast the Combine's discovery.

Felix was an uninhabited star system little more than ten light-years from Mannerheim. The dim K2-class star was brighter than SGC-902-36-G, and it did have one marginally habitable planet, although that was about the best anyone was ever likely to say about it. ...


Since Mannerheim is publicly anti-slavery, just finding the wormhole was as risky as plying the space-lanes in the Haven Quadrant. I don't actually recall any mention of the Felix leading to the HQ, just that Torch's wormhole provided a "backdoor" to the HQ-- i.e. not IN the Haven Quadrant but an unanticipated shortcut to the region.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by SYED   » Mon May 07, 2018 4:16 am

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I just noticed something kind of random, it may be important, but might not. The Silisian Confederacy, a region of space important to the mercantile interest of the kingdom. Which is now decided between the manties and andies. A location mentioned and described a lot, used actively in different stories. A failed nation whose warships are rumored to be included in those future honor verse warship guides.
This confederacy has never been mentioned to contain any wormhole terminii. The wormholes have always been key aspects in the series, the manties power is built upon the junction and it is rich due to shipping along the wormhole network. So it is strange a region of such importance is devoid of such a resource.

My theory is in the future, there will be a terminii located in confederate space. Possibly even a part of the Felix junction. With the kingdoms developing the region properly, it will finally be fully surveyed. Allowing the discovery of a junction.
I am putting forth the idea, the terminii might be linked to Felix, as there has been mentions of Mesan activities and influence in and near the confederacy. Too much just to be the Malignement messing with the manties, the mesans want this region weak. It would explain why it was a mess for so long. It would be a way to ensure the security of the terminii, if the local power was ineffective.
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Re: Felix junction, key aspect of the story (possible spoile
Post by Weird Harold   » Mon May 07, 2018 5:51 am

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SYED wrote:I am putting forth the idea, the terminii might be linked to Felix, as there has been mentions of Mesan activities and influence in and near the confederacy. Too much just to be the Malignement messing with the manties, the mesans want this region weak. It would explain why it was a mess for so long. It would be a way to ensure the security of the terminii, if the local power was ineffective.


Interesting idea. I don't know of any information about Felix that conflicts with your theory.

We know that Felix has four Termini.

We know it was discovered by a Jessyk Combine survey, ca. 200 years ago and Darius was located and surveyed through the FWHJ

We know that one leads to Darius and one to the Twins (which in turn leads to Torch through the second Twin.

We know, IIRC, that the Jessyk Combine uses the other two termini sparingly; we are never told where those termini lead.

We know Jessyk Combine transports slaves to corrupt and venal buyers in Silesia.

We know, IIRC, that Edward Saganami was killed by Manpower minions while protecting a convoy. This could be evidence of MAlign commerce raiding that early? We know that the MAlign is blamed for Haven's decline into Legislaturalist/Dolist Conquistadores -- also about 200 years ago, IIRC.

A shortcut from MAlign Space to Silesia starting from around 200 years ago, along with a "backdoor into the Haven Sector" at Torch, could easily account for many of the known problems/incidents in Silesia.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

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