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Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS

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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by n7axw   » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:50 pm

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Hi Lyonheart,

It's good to see you post. Your notion of a trip to Barca is a good one. I don't know whether or not the info they need can be pried loose. Manticore is still pretty short handed to make forceful arguements. I'm stll speculating that the info will be a recoverable file from the Volsung's database.

The thing that gave Breakwater's arguements so much punch is that Manticore is still short handed... not just militarily but all the way around. Terminating the subsidized immigration program seems to be a mistake with less than 5 million people in the entire system.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by saber964   » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:37 pm

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HungryKing wrote:I have been toying with posting this, but does anyone else think that there is a faint possibility Travis is going to live to see Ad Astra commission, or even talk to Edward Saganami? I even have this bizarre idea that Saganami's class is going to receive a 'First View', delivered by Travis as the last living officer who was present at the Battle of Manticore, and then watch the commissioning of Ad Astra and that somehow Travis and Saganami take the same shuttle back to Manticore and that Travis dies right before the shuttle enters thick atmosphere.



Doubtful on meeting Edward Saganami. Nagasaki would've been a relative nobody at the time. As to the "Last View" that didn't start until a few years after Saganami's death in the 1660's PD, so Travis would be pushing 130 years.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:54 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:Incidentally, we know that by Honor's time, Michelle Henke is considered fifth in line even though her non-Winton parent was noble.

So I'd guess that Elizabeth's constitutional amendment is going to make it clear that the requirement to marry a commoner applies only to the Crown Prince(ss). And that the line of succession is through the Winton line, no matter who they marry.

If you inherit without ever having been Crown Prince(ss), you were never under the requirement to marry a commoner.

And RFC said in a post that (at least in modern times) if you were married before you became the heir then the requirement didn’t apply. So potential heirs (like Michelle) don’t have to marry community nerd or refrain from marriage.

Though presumably even Breakwater wouldn’t have raised an objection if someone married to a noble ended up heIf or monarch due to deaths or abdication.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by lyonheart   » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:12 pm

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Hi Don,

It's obviously hostile territory, so I wouldn't expect more "B&E's" unless the consequences are real learning experiences, but primarily staying aboard and only sharing information about their attackers if they have to while trying to learn more about Duke Bloch, etc.

Regarding Manticore being shorthanded, 5 million is rather low without the plague, since it appears those involved in space may be only 2% [100 K], which definitely needs to increased, so using the trust fund to buy the needed tech support her brother suggested, along with the the defense or space tax could help a lot to fix things.

Being shorthanded might encourage the RMN to investigate reduced manning possibilities, including for Q ships like... 8-)

Definitely interesting times.

L


n7axw wrote:Hi Lyonheart,

It's good to see you post. Your notion of a trip to Barca is a good one. I don't know whether or not the info they need can be pried loose. Manticore is still pretty short handed to make forceful arguements. I'm stll speculating that the info will be a recoverable file from the Volsung's database.

The thing that gave Breakwater's arguements so much punch is that Manticore is still short handed... not just militarily but all the way around. Terminating the subsidized immigration program seems to be a mistake with less than 5 million people in the entire system.

Don

-
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by HungryKing   » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:43 pm

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That was kinda my point, Travis could conceivably live to 1632, not likely but possible, and rather than the Last View that is used later as a terrifying standard of valor and skill to meet, the First View would be a message of valor to meet and why competence is absolutely needed. The 'First View' is not essential for my passing wonderment.

As for meeting Saganami, I did posit a reason for them to meet, mainly Saganami's class's enrollment is for political theater held alongside Ad Astra's commissioning, and that they for some reason meet. I can even posit several reasons why, Saganami might have possessed the highest enrollment score and thus was at the moment of enrollment the leader of his class, or he might have been assigned to a study group that had someone who calls Travis grandfather or uncle, (even if not by blood), and they just talk.

Now, admittedly I doubt it is going to happen, mainly because it might be a bit to cliche to have a passing of the torch that way, but then again, there was a mention that Travis might not be the protagonist for the entire series. So maybe the series will end with Saganami receiving the torch, or maybe there will be a distant epilogue with an young Saganami as protagonist.

saber964 wrote:
HungryKing wrote:I have been toying with posting this, but does anyone else think that there is a faint possibility Travis is going to live to see Ad Astra commission, or even talk to Edward Saganami? I even have this bizarre idea that Saganami's class is going to receive a 'First View', delivered by Travis as the last living officer who was present at the Battle of Manticore, and then watch the commissioning of Ad Astra and that somehow Travis and Saganami take the same shuttle back to Manticore and that Travis dies right before the shuttle enters thick atmosphere.



Doubtful on meeting Edward Saganami. Nagasaki would've been a relative nobody at the time. As to the "Last View" that didn't start until a few years after Saganami's death in the 1660's PD, so Travis would be pushing 130 years.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Hornblower   » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:51 am

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Can Manticore produce missiles out of their own capacities or do they have to import compoments? For new ships they need to import impellers and fusion reactors.

It is obvious that to increase their defence capacities more missiles are needed. A higher ship yard capacity would also be good to increase the repair speed of damaged units.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Bluesqueak   » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:58 am

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Hornblower wrote:Can Manticore produce missiles out of their own capacities or do they have to import compoments? For new ships they need to import impellers and fusion reactors.

It is obvious that to increase their defence capacities more missiles are needed. A higher ship yard capacity would also be good to increase the repair speed of damaged units.


I think not. There was that scene where the XO and TO had to agree to use a missile, because the bloody things are so expensive.

Manticore's problem at this stage is the old 'we can do anything, but we can't do everything. Breakwater's been arguing for building up the domestic economy, but is sufficiently short-sighted that he doesn't realise that there are people out there who're willing to take everything Manticore has.

Essentially, he's the sort of person who does'nt have house insurance because he has nothing worth stealing - and has never figured up the cost of replacing the little he's got.

At the moment, Manticore has to balance the long term cost, in warm bodies and money, of setting up a full scale shipbuilding facility, and/or a missile building facility - AGAINST the equally long term problem that those bodies and money will probably have to be taken away from other, important, domestic economy activities. In practice, economies often decide to buy in the military hardware, because they can spare the money, but not the warm bodies.

What we as readers know is that they're sitting on a goldfield, never mind a goldmine. Defending that glittering prize will have to be a priority, and they'll need to make shipbuilding and weapons building part of their defence. But nobody on Manticore knows that yet. All they know is that for some reason, somebody is spending a LOT of money on destroying them.

I reckon they'll start prioritising building impellers the moment they find out Axelrod is behind this. They can't leave a vital shipbuilding component to be built by League transtellars, if one of those League transtellars has plans to take them out. That moves it beyond problems of domestic economics into problems of survival.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by n7axw   » Mon Mar 12, 2018 10:23 am

n7axw
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Bluesqueak wrote:
Hornblower wrote:Can Manticore produce missiles out of their own capacities or do they have to import compoments? For new ships they need to import impellers and fusion reactors.

It is obvious that to increase their defence capacities more missiles are needed. A higher ship yard capacity would also be good to increase the repair speed of damaged units.


I think not. There was that scene where the XO and TO had to agree to use a missile, because the bloody things are so expensive.

Manticore's problem at this stage is the old 'we can do anything, but we can't do everything. Breakwater's been arguing for building up the domestic economy, but is sufficiently short-sighted that he doesn't realise that there are people out there who're willing to take everything Manticore has.

Essentially, he's the sort of person who does'nt have house insurance because he has nothing worth stealing - and has never figured up the cost of replacing the little he's got.

At the moment, Manticore has to balance the long term cost, in warm bodies and money, of setting up a full scale shipbuilding facility, and/or a missile building facility - AGAINST the equally long term problem that those bodies and money will probably have to be taken away from other, important, domestic economy activities. In practice, economies often decide to buy in the military hardware, because they can spare the money, but not the warm bodies.

What we as readers know is that they're sitting on a goldfield, never mind a goldmine. Defending that glittering prize will have to be a priority, and they'll need to make shipbuilding and weapons building part of their defence. But nobody on Manticore knows that yet. All they know is that for some reason, somebody is spending a LOT of money on destroying them.

I reckon they'll start prioritising building impellers the moment they find out Axelrod is behind this. They can't leave a vital shipbuilding component to be built by League transtellars, if one of those League transtellars has plans to take them out. That moves it beyond problems of domestic economics into problems of survival.


Breakwater may well believe the stuff he's been spouting. It does make sense in a tunnel vision sort of way. But note how his tune changes after the Axelrod attack. He's promoting the same ends, but with different rationale.

What is really motivating Breakwater is his empire building.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Bluesqueak   » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:24 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:
Hornblower wrote:Can

I think not. There was that scene where the XO and TO had to agree to use a missile, because the bloody things are so expensive.

Manticore's problem at this stage is the old 'we can do anything, but we can't do everything. Breakwater's been arguing for building up the domestic economy, but is sufficiently short-sighted that he doesn't realise that there are people out there who're willing to take everything Manticore has.

Essentially, he's the sort of person who does'nt have house insurance because he has nothing worth stealing - and has never figured up the cost of replacing the little he's got.

At the moment, Manticore has to balance the long term cost, in warm bodies and money, of setting up a full scale shipbuilding facility, and/or a missile building facility - AGAINST the equally long term problem that those bodies and money will probably have to be taken away from other, important, domestic economy activities. In practice, economies often decide to buy in the military hardware, because they can spare the money, but not the warm bodies.

What we as readers know is that they're sitting on a goldfield, never mind a goldmine. Defending that glittering prize will have to be a priority, and they'll need to make shipbuilding and weapons building part of their defence. But nobody on Manticore knows that yet. All they know is that for some reason, somebody is spending a LOT of money on destroying them.

I reckon they'll start prioritising building impellers the moment they find out Axelrod is behind this. They can't leave a vital shipbuilding component to be built by League transtellars, if one of those League transtellars has plans to take them out. That moves it beyond problems of domestic economics into problems of survival.


Breakwater may well believe the stuff he's been spouting. It does make sense in a tunnel vision sort of way. But note how his tune changes after the Axelrod attack. He's promoting the same ends, but with different rationale.

What is really motivating Breakwater is his empire building.

Don

-


Yup. He's short sighted, ambitious and a full-on sociopath. He may also be sliding into paranoia. And I suspect he wants to either be the King, or be the 'power behind the throne'.

However his argument that you have to build up the domestic economy rather than support an 'unnecessary' navy is sensible enough that he has a considerable amount of support. A lot of countries prefer to buy in military hardware, and a number of countries with no visible enemies spend relatively little on their military.

The problem is the 'no visible enemies' bit. :twisted:
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Dauntless   » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:08 pm

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if it hadn't been for the peep threat it is very unlikely that the RMN would have bothered to build more then a squadron or 2 of SDs for home defence, (much like Beowulf and various solly systems). The rest of the ship budget would have gone on DDs and CLs and the some CAs as needed and maybe the odd BC.

pre peep threat the RMN was only needed to deal with Sileasa and other pirates for which light platforms and lots of them were called for.

so without even the RMMN or junction to protect yet it is hardly a surprise that a lot of the SKM's politicians don't recognise the need for lots of ships. completely forgetting that most of the time you don't know that you need a weapon until you do and that ships take a long time to build.
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