Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS

n7axw wrote:
At any rate the notion of taking prizes is pretty reasonable and not all that uncommon.

Don

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I don't know how literally Gustav Anderman's orders are to be taken. Destroy the base does not mean "but yeah snatch up any mission capable survivors."[/quote]

I think that taking prizes would be assumed and wouldn't need to be included in any orders.

Don

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WOW! Go figure, yet another use for Obsolete Solly SD's: they make wonderful tchotchke for your mantelpiece. Or as neat giveaways at the next Jaynes Military Trade Show.

Toss in a few Silly cruisers and frigates and you got a real hit there.

Obsolete compared to what??!! This isn't the post buttercup RMN, you know. Prior to Gram tech advances in the Honorverse were pretty slow motioned. At that time, the RMN's navy was mostly obsolete. But that was because of the plague years and how the politics played out in the aftermath. Those hulls could probably be updated to the point of being competitive.

The SLN played by these assumptions and comfortably so until they missed out on the memo that gram had kicked over the apple cart.

So yes, those Volsung hulls could be useful. There probably wasn't that much difference between them and the ones the Andermani had in service. In fact, the RMN managed to beat back the Volsungs with its obsolete navy. That doesn't imply that the Volsungs were so far behind as it demonsrates that there was not a lot of difference on the tech scale from top to bottom.

n7axw wrote:Obsolete compared to what??!! This isn't the post buttercup RMN, you know. Prior to Gram tech advances in the Honorverse were pretty slow motioned. At that time, the RMN's navy was mostly obsolete. But that was because of the plague years and how the politics played out in the aftermath. Those hulls could probably be updated to the point of being competitive.

The SLN played by these assumptions and comfortably so until they missed out on the memo that gram had kicked over the apple cart.

So yes, those Volsung hulls could be useful. There probably wasn't that much difference between them and the ones the Andermani had in service. In fact, the RMN managed to beat back the Volsungs with its obsolete navy. That doesn't imply that the Volsungs were so far behind as it demonsrates that there was not a lot of difference on the tech scale from top to bottom.

Several of the Volsung destroyers and Frigates are the same class as the RMN fielded.

n7axw wrote:Obsolete compared to what??!! This isn't the post buttercup RMN, you know. Prior to Gram tech advances in the Honorverse were pretty slow motioned. At that time, the RMN's navy was mostly obsolete. But that was because of the plague years and how the politics played out in the aftermath. Those hulls could probably be updated to the point of being competitive.

The SLN played by these assumptions and comfortably so until they missed out on the memo that gram had kicked over the apple cart.

So yes, those Volsung hulls could be useful. There probably wasn't that much difference between them and the ones the Andermani had in service. In fact, the RMN managed to beat back the Volsungs with its obsolete navy. That doesn't imply that the Volsungs were so far behind as it demonsrates that there was not a lot of difference on the tech scale from top to bottom.

Theemile wrote:Several of the Volsung destroyers and Frigates are the same class as the RMN fielded.

Yes the Volsung ships are possibly as antiquated as the Manty ships are. However, twas not the RMN that would have collected prizes. It would have been the Andermani. And I wonder if Gustav wouldhave taken that stuff and actually presed it into service, especially considering the overhauling it would take.

Yes he has an old rebuilt Battleship, but who else besides the league has a battleship? A few ancient destroyers, about as good as the Manty ones, or a cruiser like Casey, which the Andermani considered ... barely combat capable, would hardly be considered prizes. Well maybe to the RMN which, again, forgot to negotiate one into the mix.

And does he even need more light units?

pappilon wrote:
And does he even need more light units?

To put that one from head to feet: There's no Navy - wet Navy or space Navy alike - which has (or will ever have) enough light units. Period. If the vessels of the mercenaries are even remotely in shouting distance to your own light units, you will integrate them into your order of battle. Simply, because there are so many tasks you have to cover with light units. Screening your wall of battle; protecting your merchants; "showing the flag" missions; pirate hunting ... name it, you get it. So, as long as it is cheaper (and faster) to bring catched light units up to your own standards than to build the same number of new ones - you will keep them.

pappilon wrote:

n7axw wrote:Obsolete compared to what??!! This isn't the post buttercup RMN, you know. Prior to Gram tech advances in the Honorverse were pretty slow motioned. At that time, the RMN's navy was mostly obsolete. But that was because of the plague years and how the politics played out in the aftermath. Those hulls could probably be updated to the point of being competitive.

The SLN played by these assumptions and comfortably so until they missed out on the memo that gram had kicked over the apple cart.

So yes, those Volsung hulls could be useful. There probably wasn't that much difference between them and the ones the Andermani had in service. In fact, the RMN managed to beat back the Volsungs with its obsolete navy. That doesn't imply that the Volsungs were so far behind as it demonsrates that there was not a lot of difference on the tech scale from top to bottom.

Theemile wrote:Several of the Volsung destroyers and Frigates are the same class as the RMN fielded.

Yes the Volsung ships are possibly as antiquated as the Manty ships are. However, twas not the RMN that would have collected prizes. It would have been the Andermani. And I wonder if Gustav wouldhave taken that stuff and actually presed it into service, especially considering the overhauling it would take.

Yes he has an old rebuilt Battleship, but who else besides the league has a battleship? A few ancient destroyers, about as good as the Manty ones, or a cruiser like Casey, which the Andermani considered ... barely combat capable, would hardly be considered prizes. Well maybe to the RMN which, again, forgot to negotiate one into the mix.

And does he even need more light units?

1. Yes it would have been the Andermani who took the prizes. Where does the notion that the Volsung ships were antiquated come from? The Volsung base had provision for ship repair and had people on hand who could have been busy updating on those hulls that couldn't be gotten out of the yard in time for the confrontation with the Andermani. I will grant you that overall, the Volsungs were behind the Andermani, but probably not by that much. The decisive factor in the confrontation wasn't the tech. It was the battleship. How old the battleship was we don't know; all we are really told was that it had been seriously damaged in combat and apparently been repaired.

2. The way the story is told, Casey is behind the Andermani technologically, but not badly so. Where Travis and his fellow crew members on Casey were feeling at a disadvantage was with the training, the institutional knowledge and experience the Andermani could take for granted.

3.Had Manticore been able to crew its ships and not neglected its logistics, even those "antiquated" battle cruisers could have given its opponents a serious fight. The exception to that would be the League navy which at that time would have represented the galaxy's latest and greatest.

That the navy had become so run down seems to have been due primarily to the navy's failure to recover from the plague years and the probably inevitable politics that happened in the plague's aftermath, which would provide the context in which Breakwater and his cronies should be understood.

Don

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Casey may be behind the Andermani in most things but she does have the railgun launchers for her missiles, that is what made the attack on the base defences so effective, and ISTR the Andermani were going to consider installing the same system in their ships.

George J. Smith wrote:Casey may be behind the Andermani in most things but she does have the railgun launchers for her missiles, that is what made the attack on the base defences so effective, and ISTR the Andermani were going to consider installing the same system in their ships.

Ok so, granted that prizes were, indeed take, the Black Ops force steams into the system to discover some unidentified cruiser (Casey) headed outsystem, a bunch of orbital debris resembling a BC, an orbiting repair platform and station, and not much else?

Man, is LLyn gonna be really ... miffed!

pappilon wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:Casey may be behind the Andermani in most things but she does have the railgun launchers for her missiles, that is what made the attack on the base defences so effective, and ISTR the Andermani were going to consider installing the same system in their ships.

Ok so, granted that prizes were, indeed take, the Black Ops force steams into the system to discover some unidentified cruiser (Casey) headed outsystem, a bunch of orbital debris resembling a BC, an orbiting repair platform and station, and not much else?

Man, is LLyn gonna be really ... miffed!

Yeah, he's not fond of loose ends, is he? I'd love to see the murdering s*b get his just comeuppance...

Don

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n7axw wrote:1. Yes it would have been the Andermani who took the prizes. Where does the notion that the Volsung ships were antiquated come from? The Volsung base had provision for ship repair and had people on hand who could have been busy updating on those hulls that couldn't be gotten out of the yard in time for the confrontation with the Andermani. I will grant you that overall, the Volsungs were behind the Andermani, but probably not by that much. The decisive factor in the confrontation wasn't the tech. It was the battleship. How old the battleship was we don't know; all we are really told was that it had been seriously damaged in combat and apparently been repaired.

2. The way the story is told, Casey is behind the Andermani technologically, but not badly so. Where Travis and his fellow crew members on Casey were feeling at a disadvantage was with the training, the institutional knowledge and experience the Andermani could take for granted.

3.Had Manticore been able to crew its ships and not neglected its logistics, even those "antiquated" battle cruisers could have given its opponents a serious fight. The exception to that would be the League navy which at that time would have represented the galaxy's latest and greatest.

Actually, based off what RFC said during a con panel (sorry I no longer remember which one) at this point the SLN was a pretty small thing. In fact as I recall it he said that Gustov basically invented the first battleship for his mercenary force (then often employed by the League as they didn't have that serious a navy at the time) as kind of a going away upgrade as he was preparing to go found his empire.

Basically the League said, fine you can go and you can have this new uber-ship built as long as you turn over the plans and we can buy the next batch the yard builds. That seems to have been the point where the League switched from just SDFs and hiring military contractors when needed towards having a large (the largest) standing navy.

So right at the moment the League ships probably aren't significantly more advanced than the Andermani ones -- only in whatever upgrades they've gotten in the decades since Gustov left League space and founded his empire. Because his stuff was apparently top of the line, cutting edge, when he left.