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Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS

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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:57 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:So, two spoiler questions.
One, compoud: Did the Casey get to either replenish her missiles expended and or get to strip out any unused ordinance from the pirate fleet ships? Did they also get to grab any sort of spairs or at least samples of all sorts of new-to-them tech from the defeated pirates. And since it appears that the pirates surrendered a bunch of ships, why didn't our could't they get one as a prize for their participation?
I mean, really, the Aldermani took or destroyed everything with the excepton of the pirate controled freighers (nominaly prizes they took) which they used to take the "civllian" population of the planet and system back to it's home system? Not one measly frigate? Or stuff Casey full of ordence, manuals, specs, more modern (to them) environmental gear, propulsion stuff, sensors, computers etc, etc, etc? ????? Particularly if the Aldermani were going to destroy it. The IAN could- perhaps - put prize crews on some of the warships and took them away...but why not pass a small one to Manticore, presuming the Casey could have put a skeleton crew aboard and kept company with the prize on the way back to Manticore. Gee, another warship, hypercapable, with even old weapons?


Eh? Politics, of course. (Why do you always write "Aldermani? :) I must've missed a joke somewhere.) The Andermani are not allied to the Manties; and they are providing the wherewithal for having the action at all. They likely did replace the missiles; but have no obligation to provide prizes that would take some cash out of their own (and their crews')pockets.

Likewise, they have no obligation to upgrade a potential enemies' capabilities. They cooperated in one instance in order to achieve a specific result, but they did it without recourse to higher political authority. The Andies,iirc, even said that they did not know if Casey's participation would even be publicly acknowledged by the Emperor.

Brigade XO wrote:Two, At Danak, of the options for the pirates while they had to cool their heels given they were going to have to cycle ships through upgrades rather than all at once....see THE TWINS? Would that be a place that shows up much later when Honor is around?

So many questions.....


Diffferent set of Twins :D The ones related to the bridge at Torch are two close, but unconnected. wormhole termini. At Danak, they are a pair of planets (or inhabitable Moons?) that orbit one another. As for sightseeing, I thought the orders were not to leave their ships?

Regards,
Rob
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:17 pm

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Yeah, the whole secret part of the mission. I still think they could have nipped off with all sorts of stuff (from the pirates) as samples and passed along through Travis's department and vanished into "R&D" or things that were picked up during the tour to be brought home as examples of equipment currently in use. Actual working equipment is good. Getting all the specs, manuals and all sorts of stuff out of the pirate computers would be a great help in having a look at many things that they couldn't phsycaly bring back. That also goes right into the quiet R&D.

It should be Andermani, don't know why my fingers want to put that "i" in there.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by pappilon   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:23 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:So, two spoiler questions.
One, compoud: Did the Casey get to either replenish her missiles expended and or get to strip out any unused ordinance from the pirate fleet ships? Did they also get to grab any sort of spairs or at least samples of all sorts of new-to-them tech from the defeated pirates. And since it appears that the pirates surrendered a bunch of ships, why didn't our could't they get one as a prize for their participation?
I mean, really, the Aldermani took or destroyed everything with the excepton of the pirate controled freighers (nominaly prizes they took) which they used to take the "civllian" population of the planet and system back to it's home system? Not one measly frigate? Or stuff Casey full of ordence, manuals, specs, more modern (to them) environmental gear, propulsion stuff, sensors, computers etc, etc, etc? ????? Particularly if the Aldermani were going to destroy it. The IAN could- perhaps - put prize crews on some of the warships and took them away...but why not pass a small one to Manticore, presuming the Casey could have put a skeleton crew aboard and kept company with the prize on the way back to Manticore. Gee, another warship, hypercapable, with even old weapons?

Two, At Danak, of the options for the pirates while they had to cool their heels given they were going to have to cycle ships through upgrades rather than all at once....see THE TWINS? Would that be a place that shows up much later when Honor is around?

So many questions.....


IIRC, Casey was supposed to be going into Silesia to show the flag, talk to manufacturers, and see if there's a market for Manticore made warships. The 'find the Volsungs' mission was a secret mission.

It's slightly tricky to keep your mercenary hunting secret if you turn up back at Manticore with an additional spaceship in tow. I mean, you can tell the crew that the destruction of the Volsungs base is rated Top Secret, do not discuss, we don't know what agents they still have - but how DO you explain a frigate? Yeah, we met some really cool Andermani, and they just happened to have this frigate they didn't want...

The mission required that they acquire information about who was behind the attack. It's pretty clear that Clegg, Travis and Chomps were willing to let the Andermani have everything else, if they could only get them the Volsungs computers and databases. A frigate won't save Manticore, but finding who is targeting them and why might.


Oooh, ooh. I remember now! Casey is (as is the entire navy) entirely short on crew. She probably has no crew ti send a prize home.

Explaining a shiny new ship? "Well we were attacked after all. And our valliant boys and girla in blue fought off the invadrs who ...oops... kind of left this one behind. :lol: :lol: :roll:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:32 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:Yeah, the whole secret part of the mission. I still think they could have nipped off with all sorts of stuff (from the pirates) as samples and passed along through Travis's department and vanished into "R&D" or things that were picked up during the tour to be brought home as examples of equipment currently in use. Actual working equipment is good. Getting all the specs, manuals and all sorts of stuff out of the pirate computers would be a great help in having a look at many things that they couldn't phsycaly bring back. That also goes right into the quiet R&D.

It should be Andermani, don't know why my fingers want to put that "i" in there.


They took a complete download of the data systems--I expect they got a lot. The problem is, the pirate tech wasn't something they didn't know about, since all of it essentially was on sale by the League; they just hadn't bought any of it.

There isn't any reason to let the original sellers know they have it though. :)

Another reason for the Andies to hang onto their ordnance, though--they don't know when Gensome will be back, so they will have to continue looking for him until the word gets back from Haven that he is gone. I expect one of their spies will soon pass that on, but they don't know about it yet.

Interesting to see the role reversals with Haven and the IAN, compared to later. I wonder why the Andermani economy is so much smaller than Manticore's or pre-Legislaturist Haven? Silesia is fairly dense, and they connect directly to the core by way of Gregor and Asgerd. You'd think they would be building up the economy to support the military. . .

Rob
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:27 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:Interesting to see the role reversals with Haven and the IAN, compared to later. I wonder why the Andermani economy is so much smaller than Manticore's or pre-Legislaturist Haven? Silesia is fairly dense, and they connect directly to the core by way of Gregor and Asgerd. You'd think they would be building up the economy to support the military. . .
Not sure how much it maters, but the Gregor Terminus wasn't surveyed until 1662. So Manticore had a, what, 83 year head start on leveraging the Junction's connection to the League? And Haven was already a lot bigger, and would have also have had decent access to League markets starting around 1585; by way of the terminus in the independent system of Trevor's Star to Manticore and on to Beowulf. A larger internal market, linked with better access to the core worlds, could be enough to keep Haven well ahead of the Andermani.

Plus we don't know what kind of relationship the Gregor Republic had with the Andermani Empire - they might have restricted shipping, or charged very high tariffs, to use their terminus to Manticore. Remember that they didn't get scooped up by the Andermani until 1869, after a civil war; so before that they might have not been a great trade route for the Empire.

And going the other way, Durandel through Asgard to Midgard
then hyper over to Matapan and over the Manticore I don't think we know when that Asgard Junction was surveyed but the Matapan terminus of the Manticore Junction wasn't found until 1796; 130 years after Gregor


So the Andermani might not have been anywhere near as well positioned to take advantage of their later wormhole access compared to Haven. So it's not too surprising that Haven kept ahead of the Andermani Empire's slow expansion and build-up; especially since the later usually grew by taking over failing systems (starting with the original one, renamed New Berlin). It would probably take decades to rebuild those into really economically beneficial parts of the Empire. I bet a lot of the Empire's economic output was being absorbed internally repairing whatever ravages each system had inflicted upon itself before getting rescued by the Empire.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Weird Harold   » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:17 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:It should be Andermani, don't know why my fingers want to put that "i" in there.


Turn off auto-correct. Alderman (political office) is a word auto-correct recognizes; Anderman (fictional emperor/empire) is not a word auto-correct recognizes.

Alternatively, figure out how to add "Anderman" to the dictionary your auto-correct uses.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:23 am

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Hi Jonathan_S,

We have a conflict from the previous textev, that stated the AE added a star system every decade from the 7 star systems in it at ~1600 PD, so advancing it 80 years implies another 8 systems added before it even starts looking at Silesia.

Assuming the WHJ is still discovered only in 1585, the AE would have added another 8 from the WHJ discovery by the time of the Gregor hyper bridge is discovered for around 20 systems, plenty for quite a growing economy, NTM quite competitive with Haven's.

Even a 1-2% system surplus from ~20 planets would provide quite a aid package for each new planet over the decade in between accessions besides a very growing navy.

Interesting times indeed.

L


[quote="Jonathan_S"][quote="Armed Neo-Bob"]
Interesting to see the role reversals with Haven and the IAN, compared to later. I wonder why the Andermani economy is so much smaller than Manticore's or pre-Legislaturist Haven? Silesia is fairly dense, and they connect directly to the core by way of Gregor and Asgerd. You'd think they would be building up the economy to support the military. . .[/quote]Not sure how much it maters, but the Gregor Terminus wasn't surveyed until 1662. So Manticore had a, what, 83 year head start on leveraging the Junction's connection to the League? And Haven was already a lot bigger, and would have also have had decent access to League markets starting around 1585; by way of the terminus in the independent system of Trevor's Star to Manticore and on to Beowulf. A larger internal market, linked with better access to the core worlds, could be enough to keep Haven well ahead of the Andermani.

Plus we don't know what kind of relationship the Gregor Republic had with the Andermani Empire - they might have restricted shipping, or charged very high tariffs, to use their terminus to Manticore. Remember that they didn't get scooped up by the Andermani until 1869, after a civil war; so before that they might have not been a great trade route for the Empire.

And going the other way, Durandel through Asgard to Midgard
then hyper over to Matapan and over the Manticore I don't think we know when that Asgard Junction was surveyed but the Matapan terminus of the Manticore Junction wasn't found until 1796; 130 years after Gregor


So the Andermani might not have been anywhere near as well positioned to take advantage of their later wormhole access compared to Haven. So it's not too surprising that Haven kept ahead of the Andermani Empire's slow expansion and build-up; especially since the later usually grew by taking over failing systems (starting with the original one, renamed New Berlin). It would probably take decades to rebuild those into really economically beneficial parts of the Empire. I bet a lot of the Empire's economic output was being absorbed internally repairing whatever ravages each system had inflicted upon itself before getting rescued by the Empire.[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:36 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
Brigade XO wrote:It should be Andermani, don't know why my fingers want to put that "i" in there.


Turn off auto-correct. Alderman (political office) is a word auto-correct recognizes; Anderman (fictional emperor/empire) is not a word auto-correct recognizes.

Alternatively, figure out how to add "Anderman" to the dictionary your auto-correct uses.


Ah, well, auto-correct. That all depends. I use Word as a wordprocessing base (silly as I use a Mac) but I had to write all my business realted stuff for employers,both when working full time for others and then consulting. Word, even Word for Mac has this really odd and annoying habit of not carrying forward/over what amounts to any version of custom dictionary I built up. All sorts of banking/financial/legal terms along with proper names and things that "somehow" never make it into the usual dictionaries. You want to deal with some annoying crap, try having your dictionary "forget" not only customer names and related words for business but all sorts of Surnames and first (and middle) names from years and years of genealogy research. Oh, they are in all sorts of documents and softward but the auto-correct and spellchecke things they are wrong.
Yeah, I have discussed the challenge with various CS people at Micro*****. Oh, it transfers automatically when you upgrade (no, it didn't), all you have to do is.... (no, it doesn't), you can just go and get a copy and import it (humm, so when the new version OVERWROTE the old version -like it said it was going to- and manage not to latch onto the custom dictonary and doesn't want to import the custom from my regular backup stuff) it's operating per spec? Why, yes, it is, apparentely because that is what it does.
You can see where all this went, right in the toilet.
Anybody here got a solution....because I would LOVE to go and retrieve several sequential sets of custom dictionaries over a lot of years and stuff them down Word's throat- in a manner of speaking. Sorry, old bad memories, the rant awakens.

Oddly, my genealogy program has NO PROBLEM with hanging onto spellings even though it co-ops whatever wordprocessor I tell it to use in it's various internal notes sections.
Or that's just a Micro***** problem.
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Theemile   » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:17 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:So, two spoiler questions.
One, compoud: Did the Casey get to either replenish her missiles expended and or get to strip out any unused ordinance from the pirate fleet ships? Did they also get to grab any sort of spairs or at least samples of all sorts of new-to-them tech from the defeated pirates. And since it appears that the pirates surrendered a bunch of ships, why didn't our could't they get one as a prize for their participation?
I mean, really, the Aldermani took or destroyed everything with the excepton of the pirate controled freighers (nominaly prizes they took) which they used to take the "civllian" population of the planet and system back to it's home system? Not one measly frigate? Or stuff Casey full of ordence, manuals, specs, more modern (to them) environmental gear, propulsion stuff, sensors, computers etc, etc, etc? ????? Particularly if the Aldermani were going to destroy it. The IAN could- perhaps - put prize crews on some of the warships and took them away...but why not pass a small one to Manticore, presuming the Casey could have put a skeleton crew aboard and kept company with the prize on the way back to Manticore. Gee, another warship, hypercapable, with even old weapons?

Two, At Danak, of the options for the pirates while they had to cool their heels given they were going to have to cycle ships through upgrades rather than all at once....see THE TWINS? Would that be a place that shows up much later when Honor is around?

So many questions.....



I asked that frigate question when the book came out in EARC. It would have been easy to get a couple of the frigates or DDs operational and move them to a distant orbit, then come back for them later, and at least try to bring 1 back.

The shipyards were "portable" as well - why not try to collapse them back into freightable units and tow them out to a hidden spot to return to later?

Or maybe just taking enough missiles to top off your inventory and replace those used? (and fill every empty storage space on the Casey?)

Or if nothing else, steal every box of friggin hexes in the Volstrung's storage facility!!!
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Call to Vengeance Ramblings SPOILERS
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Wed Mar 14, 2018 5:31 pm

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Brigade XO wrote:
Weird Harold wrote:
Turn off auto-correct. Alderman (political office) is a word auto-correct recognizes; Anderman (fictional emperor/empire) is not a word auto-correct recognizes.

Alternatively, figure out how to add "Anderman" to the dictionary your auto-correct uses.


Ah, well, auto-correct. That all depends. I use Word as a wordprocessing base (silly as I use a Mac) but I had to write all my business realted stuff for employers,both when working full time for others and then consulting. Word, even Word for Mac has this really odd and annoying habit of not carrying forward/over what amounts to any version of custom dictionary I built up. All sorts of banking/financial/legal terms along with proper names and things that "somehow" never make it into the usual dictionaries.
SNIP
You can see where all this went, right in the toilet.
Anybody here got a solution....because I would LOVE to go and retrieve several sequential sets of custom dictionaries over a lot of years and stuff them down Word's throat- in a manner of speaking. Sorry, old bad memories, the rant awakens.

Oddly, my genealogy program has NO PROBLEM with hanging onto spellings even though it co-ops whatever wordprocessor I tell it to use in it's various internal notes sections.
Or that's just a Micro***** problem.



A bit of thread drift :D .
A lot of that depended on what version of Word/and which type of Mac you used. Word was written for the Mac before Windows existed. Word X used the dictionary licensed by Apple iirc. I had several PPC systems. And a crapload of software that worked. . . up to OS 10.6 which didn't support my hardware anymore. Now, I'm using a decade old hp with win7, and getting all the same "unsupported operating system" notices from software updaters. At least Vista is decently dead.

Rob
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