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That first wormhole transfer...

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That first wormhole transfer...
Post by Erls   » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:41 pm

Erls
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 146
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 9:09 pm

One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:05 pm

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Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!


I see a multi-sided fight over control of the wormhole discovery project:
Manticoran Royal Academy of Science, because Science
Royal Manticoran Navy, because we have the ships
Manticoran Patrol and Rescue Service, because Breakwater

There's funding, and glory, wrapped up in controlling the exploration for the Manticore end of the postulate wormhole, and even more glory in making the first transit, and controlling the ship which makes the first transit.

Politics: I will wager 100 quatloos that Breakwater is a founding father of the Conservative Association. And be of the opinion that the Manticore/Beowulf bridge should be closed off and ignored, because it will draw the attention of, say, the Andermani, while ignoring that the bad guys already "know" that a wormhole is there, even if they don't know exactly where "there" is.
Last edited by Fox2! on Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by feyhunde   » Mon Mar 05, 2018 10:46 pm

feyhunde
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 136
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:30 am

Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!



When the Manticore Rising trilogy became an extended series, I got a bit miffed, because my hope I'd see this scene in the third book was why I paid E-arc prices.
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by n7axw   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:25 am

n7axw
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feyhunde wrote:
Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!



When the Manticore Rising trilogy became an extended series, I got a bit miffed, because my hope I'd see this scene in the third book was why I paid E-arc prices.


SPOILER WARNING IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS, DON'T READ ON














What's bugging me a bit here is that Axelrod's attack is in 1543. Working together with the Andermani, RMN Casey discovers the mercenary base of the Volsungs and recovers a copy of the contents of the base's computer after which the Andermani destroy the base. That is in 1544. Axelrod's role in this is unexposed at the end of the book. I was presuming that Axelrod's identity would be found on that computer drive. It is not until 1585 that the first transit of the junction is made,... that seems like a long time. What was going on in the interim? How come so long?

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:06 am

Robert_A_Woodward
Lieutenant Commander

Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 10:29 pm

n7axw wrote:
What's bugging me a bit here is that Axelrod's attack is in 1543.


(snipping out spoilers for _A Call to Vengeance_)

n7axw wrote:It is not until 1585 that the first transit of the junction is made,... that seems like a long time. What was going on in the interim? How come so long?

-


There is some explanation in the Honorverse article in _More than Honor_ (the first Honorverse anthology) which was repeated in _House of Steel_. Basically, nobody had surveyed a junction before and Manticore's researchers had to learn on the job.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by George J. Smith   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:28 am

George J. Smith
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Fox2! wrote:
Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!


I see a multi-sided fight over control of the wormhole discovery project:
Manticoran Royal Academy of Science, because Science
Royal Manticoran Navy, because we have the ships
Manticoran Patrol and Rescue Service, because Breakwater

There's funding, and glory, wrapped up in controlling the exploration for the Manticore end of the postulate wormhole, and even more glory in making the first transit, and controlling the ship which makes the first transit.

Politics: I will wager 100 quatloos that Breakwater is a founding father of the Conservative Association. And be of the opinion that the Manticore/Beowulf bridge should be closed off and ignored, because it will draw the attention of, say, the Andermani, while ignoring that the bad guys already "know" that a wormhole is there, even if they don't know exactly where "there" is.


Since it is 42 years between the battle and the discovery I doubt that Breakwater was still around.

I expect that Travis was just about around but as a retired Admiral, and probably promoted only due to time served.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by pappilon   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:27 am

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Rear Admiral

Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!



Having lived through one book debacle, I would never spend the money on the e-arc just to find out if my pet daydream actually came true. Ghere was much gnashing of teeth and threats of running RFC from pillory to post and back again. Wharever.

First ship "Holy C***, we made it [alive]!"

"Now where in the universe is the RMSS Carmen Sandiego?"

Hey guys we're being ordered to surrender by someone calling themselves the Beowulf System Defense Force, Do we have anything in our files about these guys? Oh, yeah and turn on our transponder.

Hey, Charlie, got a fix on our ticket home or are we gonna have to take the long way back?

"Mess dress uniforms for dinner tonight, first shuttle to the planet leaves at 1745 hrs local on the mark."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by Bluesqueak   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:03 am

Bluesqueak
Commander

Posts: 233
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 3:04 pm

Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!


I think the time taken can be explained by Manticore's Junction being a Junction, rather than a straightforward hyper-bridge. It's taken them over four centuries to discover that one of the junction bridges goes to the Talbott Quadrant, so the interference from the other nodes probably confused the surveyors.

It wouldn't surprise me if the initial reaction is 'we know we have a hyperspace bridge - but we can't find it.' There'll be lots of politics - not just 'security', but also that Manticore can't afford to survey this confusing, complicated node just yet.

While Travis Long should be retired from the navy by the time of the first transit, I suspect he's planned as having a larger role in the discovery/first transit than people are currently thinking.

Remember that he started as a gravitics tech in A Call To Duty, and then went on to do postgraduate work in astrophysics at the beginning of A Call To Arms.
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by pappilon   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 7:16 am

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1051
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Bluesqueak wrote:
Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!


I think the time taken can be explained by Manticore's Junction being a Junction, rather than a straightforward hyper-bridge. It's taken them over four centuries to discover that one of the junction bridges goes to the Talbott Quadrant, so the interference from the other nodes probably confused the surveyors.

It wouldn't surprise me if the initial reaction is 'we know we have a hyperspace bridge - but we can't find it.' There'll be lots of politics - not just 'security', but also that Manticore can't afford to survey this confusing, complicated node just yet.

While Travis Long should be retired from the navy by the time of the first transit, I suspect he's planned as having a larger role in the discovery/first transit than people are currently thinking.

Remember that he started as a gravitics tech in A Call To Duty, and then went on to do postgraduate work in astrophysics at the beginning of A Call To Arms.


IIRC at the opening even before Lisa Donnelly walks into his recruiting station, he is already doing post-graduate work. Not that anything you said is incorrect.

Obviously he is going to be somehow involved in discovering what, if not where. After all he has to do something besides save a few of his/her majesty's war ships to earn his Title.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Re: That first wormhole transfer...
Post by Lunan   » Tue Mar 06, 2018 9:02 am

Lunan
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 365
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:06 am

I too would very much like to see the first few transits of the wormhole. However i am ok with the end of that story being. "Holy crap sir we are in the Beowulf system"

Erls wrote:One of my great desires is to see in a future Manticore Rising book the first (and second and third) transits of the WJ. Read about the ships coming out, finding their bearings, and realizing "Holy &#*@", we are x LY closer to "THIS SYSTEM".

I can't help but wonder what that first crew experienced when it popped out of the WH, took its bearings, and realized how close it was to Beowulf, perhaps the first daughter of old Earth herself. Did they immediately start trying to find the terminus to jump back to Manticore, or did they go spend weeks on Beowulf establishing relations? How did Beowulf react when it realized they were now almost 500 LY closer to the Haven system - the crown jewel of colonies at that point in time? And, how did Manticore react when the ship finally returned to inform the Star Kingdom that their wormhole went to Beowulf itself, a couples transit from Sol and the very founding of humanity?

Going a step further - how did the parties react when the Trevor's Star terminus was discovered? That shaved another 150+ LY off the transit to Haven. How did Haven respond when it learned that over 600 LY of transit between it and the Sollies was erased due to the WJ?

What impact did this have on Manticoran politics? Was Breakwater still around fighting against the concept of Manticore building its own ships? Did he try to argue that MPARs should control the WJ? How did this permanently change SKM politics - and did it help create the ancestors of the political parties present in Honor's time?

RFC - please ensure these questions are answered (at some point)!!!
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