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BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by tlb   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:12 am

tlb
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Posts: 1442
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

tlb wrote:
TFLYTSNBN wrote:Golly Gee Whizz, I wonder which of the Constitutional Amendment s provoked the Fecal Storm that compelled Duckk to close the thread?

Could you PM the snip to me?

tlb wrote:If once upon a time you were known as "namelessfly", then I expect you know very well what the discussion was; as that person made the last post before Duckk shut things down. If not, then the thread was called "Beowulf right to leave the SL" and the thread was closed on Wednesday, 11 June 2014. That is on page 77 for me.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Nobody here but us chickens.
Can you post a link?

tlb wrote:I am embarrassed to say that I do not know how to do that, but it is easy enough to get to page 77. On the top where is says "• Page 1 of 86 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 86" click the 86 that I have highlighted. You will then have this at the top "• Page 86 of 86 • 1 ... 82, 83, 84, 85, 86" and you can click the 82 and repeat until 77 is available. It does not take very ling.


cthia wrote:tlb, simply navigate to the page then place cursor into the navigation pane which begins. . .

https:. . .

then copy, cntrl c, then paste in post, cntrl v for a simple link.

Thanks. I swear I could have done that, although I think it is more suited for things outside the forum.
This is an example of the thing I do not know how to do:
cthia wrote:And, of course, this was my first plot.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6347&start=190


cthia wrote:If you are talking about cueing a specific post, someone else actually posted the technique long before I did and I came across it.

The last number in the &start coincides with the particular post on the page. Counting begins with 0 (the first post of a page). So, if one wanted to cue the third post, the last number would become 2.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6347&start=192

Even more embarrassing I asked Duckk if there was a tutorial before realizing the answer was staring me in the face. When looking at this page the browser url shows this (but not in italics, which I did to show the whole thing):

http://forums.davidweber.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9380&start=470

and that is the answer. It really is the url shown in the browser and I thought that it was something special, because the forum presentation software strips off everything from "http" through "weber.net/" and you get this as selectable in red:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=9380&start=470

Note: since I copied the example from cthia off the displayed page, it lacks the hidden http stuff in front and so does NOT show in red as selectable.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by Vince   » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:54 pm

Vince
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Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:43 pm

cthia wrote:It should also be noted that the RMN allowed other disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Almost forgot, thanks for the previous reminder Vince.

The RMN didn't allow the disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada. The most that can be said is the RMN while attempting to foster both a less extreme representative government and maintain order created the conditions where the disgruntled wives were able to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Similar to (but not exactly analogous to) how Mikhail Gorbachev's policies, combined with the NATO opposition to the Warsaw Pact, helped create the conditions that eventually led to the Romanians rebelling against Nicolae Ceaușescu, and his subsequent trail and death.
Flag in Exile, Chapter 10 wrote:"They might even have been right. There was one time—" She broke off and shrugged. "Have you been to Masada since the occupation, Ma'am?"
"No." Honor shook her head. "I've considered it, but never very seriously. If there's one person in the galaxy those lunatics really hate, I'm her, and Andrew would shoot me himself—somewhere harmless, like an arm or a leg—to keep me out of their range."
"That would be wise of him, Ma'am. You know, before I saw the place myself, I wondered why the Kingdom should have to shoulder the full burden of occupying it. I mean, we're stretched way too thin as it is, and Endicott's just a hop and a skip from Yeltsin, so why not let the Graysons supply the troops? But those people—" The chief of staff shook her head and rubbed her upper arms as if against a chill.
"Is it really that bad?" Honor asked quietly.
"Worse," Mercedes said bleakly. "Remember when we first came out here? How hard we found it to understand how Grayson women could accept their status?" Honor nodded, and Mercedes shrugged. "Compared to Graysons, Masadan women are downright scary. They're not even people. They're property . . . and ninety percent of them seem to accept that that's the way it's supposed to be." She shook her head. "Of the few who don't, half aren't sure the occupation's going to last. They're too terrified to do anything about the way they've been treated, but the ones who aren't afraid are almost worse. The homicide rate on Masada doubled in the first six months of the occupation, and something like two-thirds of the extra bodies were 'husbands'—if you can call the pigs that—who'd been murdered by their 'wives.' Some of them were rather artistic, too, like Elder Simonds' wives. The cops never did find all of his body parts."
"Good Lord," Honor murmured, and Mercedes nodded.
"It hasn't just been limited to women getting even with 'husbands,' either. The overwhelming majority of Masadans still believe in their so-called religion, but a lot of those who don't have some pretty nasty personal scores to pay off. A quarter of the church elders were murdered by their parishioners before General Marcel put the others into protective custody . . . and that only started the survivors howling about the 'oppression of the Faith'! The whole place is still under martial law, General Marcel's had a hell of a time finding anything resembling a body of responsible moderates to act as the local government, and no one on the planet has any idea how to run a nontheocratic state. Under the circumstances, the mere thought of putting in Grayson occupation troops would touch off an explosion, and there's no way Marcel's MPs have managed to confiscate all the weapons on the planet."
Italics are the author's.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:12 am

cthia
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Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:It should also be noted that the RMN allowed other disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Almost forgot, thanks for the previous reminder Vince.

The RMN didn't allow the disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada. The most that can be said is the RMN while attempting to foster both a less extreme representative government and maintain order created the conditions where the disgruntled wives were able to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Similar to (but not exactly analogous to) how Mikhail Gorbachev's policies, combined with the NATO opposition to the Warsaw Pact, helped create the conditions that eventually led to the Romanians rebelling against Nicolae Ceaușescu, and his subsequent trail and death.
Flag in Exile, Chapter 10 wrote:"They might even have been right. There was one time—" She broke off and shrugged. "Have you been to Masada since the occupation, Ma'am?"
"No." Honor shook her head. "I've considered it, but never very seriously. If there's one person in the galaxy those lunatics really hate, I'm her, and Andrew would shoot me himself—somewhere harmless, like an arm or a leg—to keep me out of their range."
"That would be wise of him, Ma'am. You know, before I saw the place myself, I wondered why the Kingdom should have to shoulder the full burden of occupying it. I mean, we're stretched way too thin as it is, and Endicott's just a hop and a skip from Yeltsin, so why not let the Graysons supply the troops? But those people—" The chief of staff shook her head and rubbed her upper arms as if against a chill.
"Is it really that bad?" Honor asked quietly.
"Worse," Mercedes said bleakly. "Remember when we first came out here? How hard we found it to understand how Grayson women could accept their status?" Honor nodded, and Mercedes shrugged. "Compared to Graysons, Masadan women are downright scary. They're not even people. They're property . . . and ninety percent of them seem to accept that that's the way it's supposed to be." She shook her head. "Of the few who don't, half aren't sure the occupation's going to last. They're too terrified to do anything about the way they've been treated, but the ones who aren't afraid are almost worse. The homicide rate on Masada doubled in the first six months of the occupation, and something like two-thirds of the extra bodies were 'husbands'—if you can call the pigs that—who'd been murdered by their 'wives.' Some of them were rather artistic, too, like Elder Simonds' wives. The cops never did find all of his body parts."
"Good Lord," Honor murmured, and Mercedes nodded.
"It hasn't just been limited to women getting even with 'husbands,' either. The overwhelming majority of Masadans still believe in their so-called religion, but a lot of those who don't have some pretty nasty personal scores to pay off. A quarter of the church elders were murdered by their parishioners before General Marcel put the others into protective custody . . . and that only started the survivors howling about the 'oppression of the Faith'! The whole place is still under martial law, General Marcel's had a hell of a time finding anything resembling a body of responsible moderates to act as the local government, and no one on the planet has any idea how to run a nontheocratic state. Under the circumstances, the mere thought of putting in Grayson occupation troops would touch off an explosion, and there's no way Marcel's MPs have managed to confiscate all the weapons on the planet."
Italics are the author's.


I agree the RMN didn't intend for those consequences to happen, but their presence certainly allowed it to. At the very least, RMN presence allowed Masadan wives to find their testicles. Same as Beowulf.

I'm not quite so sure I'm ready to give the RMN credit for attempting to foster a less extreme representative government. They gave up too soon because of the difficulty in finding suitable people who aren't as dangerous. In fact, I posted part of your textev in the GSN thread as the main cannon fodder for evidence of Grayson's lack of meeting their biggest Test, IMO.

Your history lesson about Romania is like many documentaries I had the pleasure to endure from Andreea and my many other Romanian friends and their friends from neighboring countries like Ukraine and Bulgaria. In getting to know up close and personal the kindness of Romanian people makes it hard to envision them rioting and the like. But they were oppressed, lied to and taken advantage of for so long. People have their breaking point.

Romanian people certainly bring to mind the old American adage of "Don't mistake kindness for weakness."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by TFLYTSNBN   » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:27 am

TFLYTSNBN
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Posts: 2221
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:58 am

Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:It should also be noted that the RMN allowed other disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Almost forgot, thanks for the previous reminder Vince.

The RMN didn't allow the disgruntled wives to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada. The most that can be said is the RMN while attempting to foster both a less extreme representative government and maintain order created the conditions where the disgruntled wives were able to rebel against their abusive husbands on Masada.

Similar to (but not exactly analogous to) how Mikhail Gorbachev's policies, combined with the NATO opposition to the Warsaw Pact, helped create the conditions that eventually led to the Romanians rebelling against Nicolae Ceaușescu, and his subsequent trail and death.
Flag in Exile, Chapter 10 wrote:"They might even have been right. There was one time—" She broke off and shrugged. "Have you been to Masada since the occupation, Ma'am?"
"No." Honor shook her head. "I've considered it, but never very seriously. If there's one person in the galaxy those lunatics really hate, I'm her, and Andrew would shoot me himself—somewhere harmless, like an arm or a leg—to keep me out of their range."
"That would be wise of him, Ma'am. You know, before I saw the place myself, I wondered why the Kingdom should have to shoulder the full burden of occupying it. I mean, we're stretched way too thin as it is, and Endicott's just a hop and a skip from Yeltsin, so why not let the Graysons supply the troops? But those people—" The chief of staff shook her head and rubbed her upper arms as if against a chill.
"Is it really that bad?" Honor asked quietly.
"Worse," Mercedes said bleakly. "Remember when we first came out here? How hard we found it to understand how Grayson women could accept their status?" Honor nodded, and Mercedes shrugged. "Compared to Graysons, Masadan women are downright scary. They're not even people. They're property . . . and ninety percent of them seem to accept that that's the way it's supposed to be." She shook her head. "Of the few who don't, half aren't sure the occupation's going to last. They're too terrified to do anything about the way they've been treated, but the ones who aren't afraid are almost worse. The homicide rate on Masada doubled in the first six months of the occupation, and something like two-thirds of the extra bodies were 'husbands'—if you can call the pigs that—who'd been murdered by their 'wives.' Some of them were rather artistic, too, like Elder Simonds' wives. The cops never did find all of his body parts."
"Good Lord," Honor murmured, and Mercedes nodded.
"It hasn't just been limited to women getting even with 'husbands,' either. The overwhelming majority of Masadans still believe in their so-called religion, but a lot of those who don't have some pretty nasty personal scores to pay off. A quarter of the church elders were murdered by their parishioners before General Marcel put the others into protective custody . . . and that only started the survivors howling about the 'oppression of the Faith'! The whole place is still under martial law, General Marcel's had a hell of a time finding anything resembling a body of responsible moderates to act as the local government, and no one on the planet has any idea how to run a nontheocratic state. Under the circumstances, the mere thought of putting in Grayson occupation troops would touch off an explosion, and there's no way Marcel's MPs have managed to confiscate all the weapons on the planet."
Italics are the author's.



I know some people who are immigrants from Romania. One of the guilty pleasures that they shared with us was a video of the actual execution. The Ceaușescus got loose and were runningaround with their hands tied behind their backs. The firing squad had to chase them down and shoot them on the run.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:28 am

cthia
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Posts: 11926
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

An arrogant teenager's day in Drivers Ed.


"And should we yield to oncoming traffic when we make left turns?"

"Yes sir."

"What if the left turn lane is sporting a green arrow, do you still have to yield to oncoming traffic, class?"

"No sir. A green arrow indicates the left turn lane has the right of way." Someone says.

"What if someone crashes into you anyway?"

"Then they'll be in the wrong sir. We have the right of way." I arrogantly said with confidence.

"Dead right or dead wrong, you are still dead. You've got to learn to drive for the other idiots on the highway as well. Always look for and yield to oncoming traffic whether it should be there or not."

****** *

I chose to include the transcripts from the day I became wiser in the ways of the world in Drivers Education because Vince misworded the quote and seems to miss its meaning.

Vince wrote:If the SLN takes the point that dead right or dead wrong, Beowulf is to be dead, then they had damn well better make sure that 1) Beowulf, and all of its allies, both in and out of the Solarian League, are completely, totally, utterly dead and 2) they have the capability to accomplish that. Because if they don't, they will run head-on into a historically effective strategy commonly known as tit-for-tat.


Not is [to be] dead. Simply [is] dead.

As Vince misworded it it drastically changes the intended meaning to make the possible consequences sound like it is a result of a childish decision to kill.

In this case, while Beowulf is driving on the road of political sensibilities, it must be mindful of the 800# Gorillas on the highway as well, who may not be completely privy to the rules of the Constitution of the highway, or even care about them. Or he could have simply suffered a massive seizure and is suffering from a brain hemorrhage from the many years of ignoring the symptoms. Sounds like the obese Gorilla to me.

It really doesn't matter if Beowulf is in the right while driving on this political road. When making a left turn, even though the Constitution within the traffic light gives her a green arrow, she must still be wary of any arrogant SL idiots failing to yield the right of way. You can't sue from your grave.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by Vince   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 3:55 pm

Vince
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Posts: 1565
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:43 pm

cthia wrote:
An arrogant teenager's day in Drivers Ed.


"And should we yield to oncoming traffic when we make left turns?"

"Yes sir."

"What if the left turn lane is sporting a green arrow, do you still have to yield to oncoming traffic, class?"

"No sir. A green arrow indicates the left turn lane has the right of way." Someone says.

"What if someone crashes into you anyway?"

"Then they'll be in the wrong sir. We have the right of way." I arrogantly said with confidence.

"Dead right or dead wrong, you are still dead. You've got to learn to drive for the other idiots on the highway as well. Always look for and yield to oncoming traffic whether it should be there or not."

****** *

I chose to include the transcripts from the day I became wiser in the ways of the world in Drivers Education because Vince misworded the quote and seems to miss its meaning.

Vince wrote:If the SLN takes the point that dead right or dead wrong, Beowulf is to be dead, then they had damn well better make sure that 1) Beowulf, and all of its allies, both in and out of the Solarian League, are completely, totally, utterly dead and 2) they have the capability to accomplish that. Because if they don't, they will run head-on into a historically effective strategy commonly known as tit-for-tat.


Not is [to be] dead. Simply [is] dead.

As Vince misworded it it drastically changes the intended meaning to make the possible consequences sound like it is a result of a childish decision to kill.

In this case, while Beowulf is driving on the road of political sensibilities, it must be mindful of the 800# Gorillas on the highway as well, who may not be completely privy to the rules of the Constitution of the highway, or even care about them. Or he could have simply suffered a massive seizure and is suffering from a brain hemorrhage from the many years of ignoring the symptoms. Sounds like the obese Gorilla to me.

It really doesn't matter if Beowulf is in the right while driving on this political road. When making a left turn, even though the Constitution within the traffic light gives her a green arrow, she must still be wary of any arrogant SL idiots failing to yield the right of way. You can't sue from your grave.

What I said is what I meant. The problem from the SLN point of view is the situation has changed, and they don't realize how drastically it has changed.

To use your driver's education analog, and applying a rule that I learned in driver's education: The lug nut rule--the vehicle with the most lug nuts will win (suffer less damage, not have the driver or passengers killed or injured--or at least suffer much less severe injuries) in a collision with a vehicle with fewer lug nuts.

Essentially the situation you are analogizing is Beowulf (as a sedan passenger vehicle) was on a road approaching a cross traffic intersection with two roads intersecting at 90 degrees with a green traffic light. The SLN (as a fully loaded tractor trailer) approaching the same intersection with a red light on the other road, but is refusing to obey the red light and stop at the intersection until the light goes green. Beowulf can see the 80,000 pound SLN truck approaching the intersection and if they attempt to go through on the green light, they know they will be run over by the SLN running the red light and be killed in the collision.

The problem I don't think you are seeing, and the problem the SLN definitely isn't seeing, is the situation is no longer the same as it was for hundreds of years previously.

The SLN is still driving the truck, but the truck is now empty, a hollow shell that no longer weighs 80,000 pounds, but only 20,000 pounds. Beowulf is still in the sedan, but is no longer driving on the road. Instead the sedan is loaded on the Grand Alliance freight train (on an automotive traincar carrier) with ten 200 ton locomotives and one hundred full ore cars weighing 300,000 pounds each moving down the railroad tracks that run parallel to the road (that Beowulf's sedan was previously driving on) at 120 miles per hour towards the railroad crossing. The crossing lights are flashing, the crossing guard arms have come down, the traffic lights for the roads (not the railroad track) are showing red in all directions, including for the SLN truck, the freight train has its headlight on and is sounding its horn, but the SLN truck driver is too stupid or stubborn to do anything but decide to try to beat the train, with an old, obsolete truck that can't accelerate to beat the train, but that could stop in time if the driver decided to step on the brakes.

Who do you think will be dead when the GA freight train collides broadside with the SLN truck? Example of truck train collision

All because the SLN truck driver was too stupid or stubborn to obey the rules of the road. As you say: dead wrong or dead right is still dead. A failure to obey the rules of the road, and a complete misread of the situation as it actually exists, results in a dead SLN.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:53 pm

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

Has anyone worked on the notion that in some ways almost all of us are right?

Yes, if you commit a major genocide, you better be certain the other side gets scared. Note the Holocaust. The Germans did what they wanted and kept records. The records helped imprison at least a few.

I don't think the mandarins planned a genocide. They wanted major destruction...teach Beowulf a lesson. And, of course, their could have been tit for tat. Could really have been had Honor Harrington not pulled back.

And yes the situation had changed. Remember back a whole group of books ago and the Sollies seemed invincible. But they went down really fast. Times do change.

So all of this is true. Times changed and you do have to watch out for the other fellow.

One thing it would be interesting to know: what will happens when Hyacinth and a few others sue the League for damages?
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:15 am

cthia
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Posts: 11926
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

What I said is what I meant. The problem from the SLN point of view is the situation has changed, and they don't realize how drastically it has changed.


No, the gorilla doesn't realize how the traffic patterns have changed, he's a gorilla. He's also an irresponsible driver driving w/o a license because of so many infractions accumulated over the centuries. He speeds down every road ignoring every yield sign in sight. He's a gorilla with a badge and he's been policing the Hwys for centuries. When he wants to speed, he just turns on his siren, places a light atop his cruisers and hauls ass through every stoplight until he gets to where he's going, ready to draw his weapon and shoot first, w/o asking questions.

'Taint nothing changed about the gorilla with a badge or his MO for centuries. Or his perceived license to kill. He's been illegally weaving in and out of traffic for centuries and Beowulf has been tailgating him all the while. So she knows. She knows. But she hasn't yet learned that tailgating is unsafe. Drop back, give the idiot a wide birth. The gorilla has a skull and cross bones painted on his truck in a Death Race 2000 just looking for someone's ass to run over for points! Can't say it enough, that's his MO. But then, who is the most looney, the gorilla? Or a high strung gf out for a stroll in a sedan, running away from her road raging husband who doesn't even see her on the highway until she makes a dangerous U-turn and decides to take him on - head on! A sedan playing chicken on the highway with a tractor and trailer simply because it isn't loaded?

"Na na na na na naaaa. I got a new boyyyyyy friend." Knowing full-well her new bf isn't going to be with her at all times. He's got work to do.

To use your driver's education analog, and applying a rule that I learned in driver's education: The lug nut rule--the vehicle with the most lug nuts will win (suffer less damage, not have the driver or passengers killed or injured--or at least suffer much less severe injuries) in a collision with a vehicle with fewer lug nuts.
Problem Beowulf. The SLN has more lug nuts and NUTS than they do. Which is why Beowulf ends up with 20M dead.

Now, her mad as hell bf has more lug nuts and will win his sortie against the gorilla, but it ain't gonna matter one bit, to the 20M little red headed step chullin chillin on ice, kids of hers dead.

Essentially the situation you are analogizing is Beowulf (as a sedan passenger vehicle) was on a road approaching a cross traffic intersection with two roads intersecting at 90 degrees with a green traffic light. The SLN (as a fully loaded tractor trailer) approaching the same intersection with a red light on the other road, but is refusing to obey the red light and stop at the intersection until the light goes green. Beowulf can see the 80,000 pound SLN truck approaching the intersection and if they attempt to go through on the green light, they know they will be run over by the SLN running the red light and be killed in the collision.

The problem I don't think you are seeing, and the problem the SLN definitely isn't seeing, is the situation is no longer the same as it was for hundreds of years previously.


Of course I see it. How can a reader not see it?

Correct, the SLN does NOT see it. But Beowulf knows the Gorilla doesn't see it. That fact is part of the reason Beowulf should have confronted the Mandarins in public. Beowulf also knows the SLN does NOT see the traffic light, or rather Beowulf knows full-well the SLN is in the habit of running red lights. The Gorilla has been color blind for centuries. So, it's a perfect opportunity for Beowulf to drive for the other idiot on the hwy too. In a safe manner that doesn't cost her lives.

The SLN is still driving the truck, but the truck is now empty, a hollow shell that no longer weighs 80,000 pounds, but only 20,000 pounds.
An empty 20,000 pound rig will still tear the hell out of a sedan.

Beowulf is still in the sedan, but is no longer driving on the road. Instead the sedan is loaded on the Grand Alliance freight train (on an automotive traincar carrier) with ten 200 ton locomotives and one hundred full ore cars weighing 300,000 pounds each moving down the railroad tracks that run parallel to the road (that Beowulf's sedan was previously driving on) at 120 miles per hour towards the railroad crossing.


You and I have been reading vastly different books. Beowulf IS NOT loaded on the GA freight train. That would amount to Beowulf sitting in the Manticore Binary System. She is not. She is on the RMN railway, needing only to throw a switch to sidetrack the RMN to her depot through the junction. But Beowulf is still driving on her on. She is making political decisions on her own. The referendum is her own bailiwick. She is NOT loaded on the RMN train, that would truly be treason before a referendum. Marriage before divorce. She's just a stop along the way.

The crossing lights are flashing,
That flashing is the strobing yellow light that flashes on some traffic lights to warn speeding motorists (Beowulf) that she is proceeding too quickly to stop for the imminent red light. The red light is her warning NOT to interfere with her own founding's attempt to enter the intersection. If an empty rig does not intend to stop because it thinks it has the right of way, what the hell is a sedan doing trying to pit maneuver it? There'll be repercussions. Heck, Beowulf should be given a ticket for an unsafe maneuver.

The unsafe maneuver is what this thread is about - Karma.

the crossing guard arms have come down, the traffic lights for the roads (not the railroad track) are showing red in all directions, including for the SLN truck, the freight train has its headlight on and is sounding its horn, but the SLN truck driver is too stupid or stubborn to do anything but decide to try to beat the train, with an old, obsolete truck that can't accelerate to beat the train, but that could stop in time if the driver decided to step on the brakes.
You still don't get what this thread is about. None of that matters as far as the innocent lives snuffed out on Beowulf. Because she tried to take on a road raging Gorilla in a lorry with a Toyota Corolla - hoping her bf who drives a train will get to her before the road raging gorilla takes her out.

A 20M lives mistake.

Who do you think will be dead when the GA freight train collides broadside with the SLN truck? Example of truck train collision


Oh yeeeea. There'll be some deaths on that SLN truck for sure. But! The Gorilla has a fleet of trucks on the Hwy and one will make it through on her next long distance haul just in time to take part in a 20M car pileup - at an intersection in Beowulfan space.

Simply because Beowulf didn't respect an out of control road raging Gorilla.

All because the SLN truck driver was too stupid or stubborn to obey the rules of the road. As you say: dead wrong or dead right is still dead. A failure to obey the rules of the road, and a complete misread of the situation as it actually exists, results in a dead SLN.

I agree. Everyone knows the truck driver is stupid. He's also arrogant. He's also color blind, and couldn't see a red light if they were all red. Beowulf knows he's stupid. Full of road rage. And color blind. All she had to do to not suffer ANY deaths was pull over on the soft shoulder and let the raging lunatic get through the intersection. If he wants to kill himself, LET HIM! But please, do protect your own!

I don't know anyone driving a sedan who wouldn't yield for a rig driven by an out of control raging gorilla charging through an intersection on a mission.

Little consolation that someone dies with you.

Beowulf should learn to handle road rage better.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:40 am

cthia
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Posts: 11926
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:10 pm

Beowulf trying to stop while she's tailgating and following too closely on the heels of a war, is like hitting your breaks when its just starting to rain and hydroplaning . . . right smack dab into trouble.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: BEOWULF - THE KARMA SUITSYA
Post by tlb   » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:40 am

tlb
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1442
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 10:34 am

The analogies flying around might get full marks in a class on creative writing, but do not seem to advance the debate. In Thomas Kuhn's book on scientific revolutions, sometimes one side wins because the adherents on the other side have died out; this may be one of those cases.


PS. AAC describes the Moriarty system, it does not mention the system defense called Mycroft.
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