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MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"

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Re: MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"
Post by cthia   » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:26 pm

cthia
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One thing is for certain. The guilt that would follow those in charge for their lack of preparation may kill them as well.

The Time that it would take to get over the survivor's guilt of such a transgression = ∞² ...


Image

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"
Post by Vince   » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:35 am

Vince
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Posts: 1574
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cthia wrote:
Vince wrote:The first problem I see in building what is necessary to lift the population of a planet (with little to nothing in the way of possessions) is how to pay for it.

Since all the real estate and everything built on/under/in orbit around it is going to go boom and thus the value will literally evaporate, externally, who would be willing to finance the cost of building the means to lift the population off the planet?


The government of the people, for the people and by the people would be willing to pay for transports. A vehicle which would undoubtedly see many uses. In fact, they would have been used to evacuate the remaining citizens of Hades.

Also, the value of one's life should not depreciate in the face of losing one's possessions. Besides, more possessions can be bought with the bank accounts of Manticorans over the long life left on their prolonged odometer.

You misunderstood the point I was attempting to make. A government's ability to pay for goods and services (in this case, evacuating its citizens from the planet) is derived from either its ability to borrow, or to tax, with its ability to borrow directly related to its ability to tax and therefore repay its lenders. And if a government needs to evacuate all its citizens, it will need to borrow.

A government's ability to tax is directly related to the strength of the economy and wealth. If the planet is going to experience an incident that is serious enough to require total evacuation, I would expect the economy to go into a severe depression at best, since the value of the planetary real estate, and everything built on, under, or in planetary orbit will drop to zero. Only movable property will retain any value at all, with some forms of movable property being worth much more than others--merchantmen, including transports will be worth much, much, more. This means that the government will not be able to borrow the bulk of the funds from its own citizens, and must therefore look to outside lenders.

For the Manticoran binary system, the only sources of wealth and economic activity will be the other two planets, the merchantmen and the Junction (this assumes that Manticore is at peace). For a single habitable planet system, the economic outlook is much more bleak.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:12 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

cthia wrote:
Vince wrote:The first problem I see in building what is necessary to lift the population of a planet (with little to nothing in the way of possessions) is how to pay for it.

Since all the real estate and everything built on/under/in orbit around it is going to go boom and thus the value will literally evaporate, externally, who would be willing to finance the cost of building the means to lift the population off the planet?


The government of the people, for the people and by the people would be willing to pay for transports. A vehicle which would undoubtedly see many uses. In fact, they would have been used to evacuate the remaining citizens of Hades.

Also, the value of one's life should not depreciate in the face of losing one's possessions. Besides, more possessions can be bought with the bank accounts of Manticorans over the long life left on their prolonged odometer.
Vince wrote:You misunderstood the point I was attempting to make. A government's ability to pay for goods and services (in this case, evacuating its citizens from the planet) is derived from either its ability to borrow, or to tax, with its ability to borrow directly related to its ability to tax and therefore repay its lenders. And if a government needs to evacuate all its citizens, it will need to borrow.

A government's ability to tax is directly related to the strength of the economy and wealth. If the planet is going to experience an incident that is serious enough to require total evacuation, I would expect the economy to go into a severe depression at best, since the value of the planetary real estate, and everything built on, under, or in planetary orbit will drop to zero. Only movable property will retain any value at all, with some forms of movable property being worth much more than others--merchantmen, including transports will be worth much, much, more. This means that the government will not be able to borrow the bulk of the funds from its own citizens, and must therefore look to outside lenders.

For the Manticoran binary system, the only sources of wealth and economic activity will be the other two planets, the merchantmen and the Junction (this assumes that Manticore is at peace). For a single habitable planet system, the economic outlook is much more bleak.


Please see Course Description.

You're the only person I know who wants to stop and balance the checkbook when order to evacuate is given.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: MILSPEC-555: "EVACUATING A PLANET"
Post by Vince   » Sun Feb 25, 2018 6:06 am

Vince
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1574
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:43 pm

cthia wrote:
Vince wrote:You misunderstood the point I was attempting to make. A government's ability to pay for goods and services (in this case, evacuating its citizens from the planet) is derived from either its ability to borrow, or to tax, with its ability to borrow directly related to its ability to tax and therefore repay its lenders. And if a government needs to evacuate all its citizens, it will need to borrow.

A government's ability to tax is directly related to the strength of the economy and wealth. If the planet is going to experience an incident that is serious enough to require total evacuation, I would expect the economy to go into a severe depression at best, since the value of the planetary real estate, and everything built on, under, or in planetary orbit will drop to zero. Only movable property will retain any value at all, with some forms of movable property being worth much more than others--merchantmen, including transports will be worth much, much, more. This means that the government will not be able to borrow the bulk of the funds from its own citizens, and must therefore look to outside lenders.

For the Manticoran binary system, the only sources of wealth and economic activity will be the other two planets, the merchantmen and the Junction (this assumes that Manticore is at peace). For a single habitable planet system, the economic outlook is much more bleak.


Please see Course Description.

You're the only person I know who wants to stop and balance the checkbook when order to evacuate is given.

I went back and read the course description, since you posted the link. I also read House of Steel, where all the various Manticoran governments faced a similar threat to their planets. A significant problems they faced in House of Steel in preparing to successfully deal with the threat they faced was how to pay for what they had to build to face the threat, and to balance the funding for that against all the other funding requirements necessary to keep the government and the star system running, including the RMN's other responsibilities. And they had the advantage of knowing that the wealth of their system would not simply evaporate on day X.

Have you watched, in full the YouTube video that KJakker posted?

I'm afraid with this particular topic you have fallen into the trap that Lord Skimper has: Being so focused on a specific idea, to the point where when others point out the problems with it, and how there are better ways that already exist to solve the problem, and that nothing exists apart from everything else, to the point that the idea supercedes all other considerations in the universe that the idea is set in (in this case, I am assuming the universe is the Honorverse).
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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