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Ship Classifications

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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:34 pm

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ldwechsler wrote:Are you certain of that? I recall that the Artemis was a pod-laying BC and the Nike was not.
From Shadow of Saganami [edit: actually Shadow of Freedom] "I have to question whether or not a battlecruiser—even a Nike like Artemis—is the best place for you to keep your flag."

Is is possible you were getting her confused with Mike's old command HMS Agamemnon?
Last edited by Jonathan_S on Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by yau88hse   » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:02 am

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To compare honorverse ship with our current navy system just won't work, we need to look back at the rating system of Royal Navy in the age of sail, then we will understand the design of honorverse ship and why ship looks more like the same except the difference in size, the use of WW2 classifications like FF DD CL CA BB BC is to help reader to understand the combat power of a said ship. There were only 3 type of ship classes in the age of sail, ship of the line, frigate and unrated ship (sloops), the following is how I correlate both system.

1st rate to 3rd rate (ship of the line) > SD, DN
4th rate (ship of the line) > BB, no longer build in both age of nelson and honorverse by the RN and RMN.
5th rate (frigate) > BC, CA
6th rate (frigate) > CL, DD
unrated ship> frigate/ anything smaller than a DD
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by saber964   » Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:15 pm

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yau88hse wrote:To compare honorverse ship with our current navy system just won't work, we need to look back at the rating system of Royal Navy in the age of sail, then we will understand the design of honorverse ship and why ship looks more like the same except the difference in size, the use of WW2 classifications like FF DD CL CA BB BC is to help reader to understand the combat power of a said ship. There were only 3 type of ship classes in the age of sail, ship of the line, frigate and unrated ship (sloops), the following is how I correlate both system.

1st rate to 3rd rate (ship of the line) > SD, DN
4th rate (ship of the line) > BB, no longer build in both age of nelson and honorverse by the RN and RMN.
5th rate (frigate) > BC, CA
6th rate (frigate) > CL, DD
unrated ship> frigate/ anything smaller than a DD



Actually you could divide up the 5th rate.
BC's large Frigates like USN's Constitution class and RN's Black Rose and Marlboro class 44 and 50 gun frigates.
CA's the standard frigate nominally the 32, 36 and 38 guns

CL's would in the 24 - 30 gun size 6th rate.
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by Armed Neo-Bob   » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:59 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
ldwechsler wrote:Are you certain of that? I recall that the Artemis was a pod-laying BC and the Nike was not.
From Shadow of Saganami "I have to question whether or not a battlecruiser—even a Nike like Artemis—is the best place for you to keep your flag."

Is is possible you were getting her confused with Mike's old command HMS Agamemnon?



I remember Vicki saying that, but it wasn't in SoSag; I think it was ART? They were in Montana, and headed out to Tillerman.
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:44 pm

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:From Shadow of Saganami "I have to question whether or not a battlecruiser—even a Nike like Artemis—is the best place for you to keep your flag."

Is is possible you were getting her confused with Mike's old command HMS Agamemnon?



I remember Vicki saying that, but it wasn't in SoSag; I think it was ART? They were in Montana, and headed out to Tillerman.

Sorry - that was actually Shadow of Freedom; in Chapter 33. And yes, it's Vicky saying that.
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by ldwechsler   » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 am

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Armed Neo-Bob wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:From Shadow of Saganami "I have to question whether or not a battlecruiser—even a Nike like Artemis—is the best place for you to keep your flag."

Is is possible you were getting her confused with Mike's old command HMS Agamemnon?



I remember Vicki saying that, but it wasn't in SoSag; I think it was ART? They were in Montana, and headed out to Tillerman.

Sorry - that was actually Shadow of Freedom; in Chapter 33. And yes, it's Vicky saying that.[/quote]

At one point, it is noted that having a more non-descript ship might be useful for a flagship. It might be less of a target.

Also, if it was said that Artremis was a Nike, that differs from House of Steel, where is seems to be an Agamemnon class.
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Re: Ship Classifications
Post by Vince   » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:12 pm

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Hopefully I got the quote tags sorted out correctly.
Jonathan_S wrote:From Shadow of Saganami "I have to question whether or not a battlecruiser—even a Nike like Artemis—is the best place for you to keep your flag."

Is is possible you were getting her confused with Mike's old command HMS Agamemnon?
Armed Neo-Bob wrote:I remember Vicki saying that, but it wasn't in SoSag; I think it was ART? They were in Montana, and headed out to Tillerman.
ldwechsler wrote:
Unknown poster wrote:Sorry - that was actually Shadow of Freedom; in Chapter 33. And yes, it's Vicky saying that.

At one point, it is noted that having a more non-descript ship might be useful for a flagship. It might be less of a target.

Also, if it was said that Artremis was a Nike, that differs from House of Steel, where is seems to be an Agamemnon class.

A search of Artemis in House of Steel turns up only 2 mentions:
House of Steel wrote:In 1647, the survey ship Artemis made a first transit through the Gregor Terminus, opening up yet another shipping route, this one providing access to both the Andermani Empire and the Silesian Confederacy.

At present, many surviving hulls of the original Apollo class have been upgraded to the Flight IV standard. At the beginning of its service life, this class was often referred to as the Artemis class, although officially they have always been carried on the Navy List simply as Flight IV Apollos. The distinction became irrelevant as the remainder of the older hulls were refitted to these standards.


Artemis is a Nike-class BC:
Storm From the Shadows, Chapter 11 wrote:"Welcome aboard, Admiral," Captain of the List Victoria Armstrong said as Michelle stepped across the decksole line that marked the official boundary between Her Majesty's Space Station Hephaestus and HMS Artemis, which had just become her flagship.
The outsized personnel tube connecting the battlecruiser's number two boat bay to the space station had been crowded when she arrived. It was amazing how that had changed when the PA had informed everyone she was headed down-tube, however. The flow in and out of the tube had stopped almost immediately, and those souls who'd been unable to get out of it had shrunk back against the tube walls as Michelle made her way down its center with Gervais Archer and Chris Billingsley at her heels.

***Snip***

"In a few minutes," she told them, "I'm going to want the ten-dollar tour. I had Michael Oversteegen and the original Nike in my last squadron, briefly at least, so I'm generally familiar with the class, but I'm sure Artemis has her own brand new bells and whistles, and I want to see all of them. First, though, I'd like to say a couple of things about our mission, as I understand it at this time."

***Snip***

"That's almost certainly going to lead to a certain inevitable dispersal of force, but it can't be helped for the immediate future. For that matter, despite all the Navy's experience in commerce protection and system defense, we've never before been responsible for the security of a single star nation spread out over this large a volume of space, so we're making some of this up as we go. That's going to pinch our toes harder than just about anyone else's in the immediate future, but at least everyone knows it, which is why the Admiralty's trying so hard to give us the tools we'll need . . . and why we're expecting at least two full flotillas of the new Roland-class ships, as well as additional Saganami-Cs and Nikes. The Agamemnons are going to be going to Home Fleet, Third Fleet, and—especially—Eighth Fleet, but we'll be getting the Nikes in compensation."
She paused as Adenauer half-raised a hand.
"Yes, Dominica?"
"It sounds like you're saying all the Agamemnons are being retained here at the front, Ma'am."
"That's exactly what I am saying," Michelle agreed. "The Nikes were designed for this sort of duty from the beginning. We're bigger than the Agamemnons, we've got larger crews, and we've got more Marines. And we're not a pod design. Unlike us, the Agamemnons can load their pods with all-up Mark 23s, whereas we're limited to the Mark 16."
Italics are the author's, boldface is my emphasis.
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History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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