Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

Remaining holes in SLN intel

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by pappilon   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:39 pm

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
pnakasone wrote:I think Santino would have been a competent subordinate in a fleet but was not fleet command material where he was the one making the big calls.


When we first met Elvis Santino in Honor's snotty cruise, he was an idiot and incompetent. He didn't improve by the time cronyism got him promoted to Admiral and got him a station command.


Not to mention all too willing to play the patronage game to his own advantage by willingly yield the hatchet for Young. Which never spoke well for him.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by ldwechsler   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:17 pm

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm

pappilon][quote="pnakasone wrote:I think Santino would have been a competent subordinate in a fleet but was not fleet command material where he was the one making the big calls.


When we first met Elvis Santino in Honor's snotty cruise, he was an idiot and incompetent. He didn't improve by the time cronyism got him promoted to Admiral and got him a station command.[/quote]

Not to mention all too willing to play the patronage game to his own advantage by willingly yield the hatchet for Young. Which never spoke well for him.[/quote]

There is corruption everywhere. Wartime tends to end a lot of it as the corrupt are either killed, captured or sent to where they can do no harm.

But the Sollies have not faced war so the incompetents may rule.
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by lyonheart   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:42 pm

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi ldwechsler,

We were told years ago [more than a decade] by RFC that the BF was incompetent and the efficient or successful leader would probably come from the FF to be the new CO, if the SLN got that lucky.

Given how deep the hole is, I don't how anyone including H-AH herself could get out of it, if she were cloned or somehow switched sides.

We've had many threads by people trying to find some way the SLN might win or stave off the avalanche or monsoon about to hit them, but none of them came close to being realistic as, so many of you pointed out.

If we have a single RHN DD fending off an entire FF TF all by itself, where can the SLN win?

RFC put them in this deep hole for a reason long ago we may find out some more of the answers next week. 8-)

L


ldwechsler wrote:
pappilon][quote="pnakasone wrote:I think Santino would have been a competent subordinate in a fleet but was not fleet command material where he was the one making the big calls.


When we first met Elvis Santino in Honor's snotty cruise, he was an idiot and incompetent. He didn't improve by the time cronyism got him promoted to Admiral and got him a station command.


Not to mention all too willing to play the patronage game to his own advantage by willingly yield the hatchet for Young. Which never spoke well for him.[/quote]

There is corruption everywhere. Wartime tends to end a lot of it as the corrupt are either killed, captured or sent to where they can do no harm.

But the Sollies have not faced war so the incompetents may rule.[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by n7axw   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:07 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5984
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

pnakasone wrote:
cthia wrote:Another post pegged for me. That's happening a lot lately. Nice comparison.

It reminds me of the question I think all mothers ask their kids. "Are you going to jump off of a bridge simply because someone else does?"

I suppose I have to mom if I'm serving under Santino. All those wasted lives led to slaughter. Poor Jaruwalski is forever haunted by their eyes as she left them to die.


I think Santino would have been a competent subordinate in a fleet but was not fleet command material where he was the one making the big calls.


Not very competent in any position. He basicly got himself rum off the ship by the captain during Honor's middie cruise. To be sure, he was officially put in charge of a prize and sent home. But the reality was that the captain wanted him gone.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by kzt   » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:17 pm

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11170
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

lyonheart wrote:
Given how deep the hole is, I don't how anyone including H-AH herself could get out of it, if she were cloned or somehow switched sides.

This is hardly uncommon in war.

The Soviet Union in WW2, the US Civil War (On the Union side the only competent combat general was like 87 years old), the USN and USA in WW2 had somewhat less serious cases of this.

You might notice a pattern there as to who won the war that made the incompetency obvious.
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by pappilon   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 6:05 am

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

lyonheart wrote:Hi ldwechsler,

We were told years ago [more than a decade] by RFC that the BF was incompetent and the efficient or successful leader would probably come from the FF to be the new CO, if the SLN got that lucky.

Given how deep the hole is, I don't how anyone including H-AH herself could get out of it, if she were cloned or somehow switched sides.

We've had many threads by people trying to find some way the SLN might win or stave off the avalanche or monsoon about to hit them, but none of them came close to being realistic as, so many of you pointed out.

If we have a single RHN DD fending off an entire FF TF all by itself, where can the SLN win?

RFC put them in this deep hole for a reason long ago we may find out some more of the answers next week. 8-)

L




Yes but didn't RFC also admonish us that the SLN will have its victories? Yes in the long short term, if the GA can fracture the league, the SLN will not have the long term to catch up and use its quantitave advantages. Does not mean some small Operation Buccaneer victories.

I don't see a winning Strategy for the SL that does not revolve around the Battle of Moscow and letting the winter weather destroy whichever navy outruns its supply line.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:21 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14945
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Something was seriously broken inside Santino. I don't know what and don't want the author to waste any time on it, but something profound was really wrong there. He was missing cogs, sprockets and screws. With Honor and other competent officers, I got the impression there simply was never enough time to do what needed to be done. With Santino and Pavel Young, one wonders what the heck they did with their time to occupy themselves. Watching skin flicks on HD in their quarters? I always wondered whether Jaruwalski could have relieved Santino and taken command of the ship like Denzel did in Crimson Tide with some obscure regulation that amounts to incompetence?

In fact, I kept looking for that shoe to drop. ::shrugs::

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by Weird Harold   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:38 pm

Weird Harold
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4478
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:25 pm
Location: "Lost Wages", NV

cthia wrote:I always wondered whether Jaruwalski could have relieved Santino and taken command of the ship ...


She was too far down the pecking order. Relieving a taskforce/station commander requires more than taking control of the flagship, it requires the cooperation of the flag staff, the flagship crew, and every senior commander in the task force. Doing so in the face of an enemy attack is even more problematic.

The time to have removed Santino was long before the PRN dropped out of Hyper.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by cthia   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 pm

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14945
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:I always wondered whether Jaruwalski could have relieved Santino and taken command of the ship ...


She was too far down the pecking order. Relieving a taskforce/station commander requires more than taking control of the flagship, it requires the cooperation of the flag staff, the flagship crew, and every senior commander in the task force. Doing so in the face of an enemy attack is even more problematic.

The time to have removed Santino was long before the PRN dropped out of Hyper.

Well, that explains why she didn't. It also explains why Honor didn't tear into her ass for failing to do exactly that, as I thought she would.

At any rate, now that you mentioned it, I wondered why it hadn't been done long before the PRH showed up. Textev pretty much labeled Santino as dead weight and whoever the responsibility fell to dropped the ball, IMO. I don't understand why Jaruwalski didn't approach "whoever" to do exactly that. It isn't like the entire ship wouldn't have been in their corner. I'm also shocked that Jaruwalski was so far down the ladder. I've got to reread for that tidbit. I know you're right, just for my own benefit.

At any rate, when she was leaving the ship, I remember being angry at Jaruwalski. "What are you doing A.J? Get your arse back in there and do what needs to be done." I thought she had more than enough time to relieve him of command then give the order to scatter.

The eyes of those poor officers still haunt me. "Please don't leave us to die, A.J."

Whoever the responsibility belonged to must have been as sorry as Santino.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Remaining holes in SLN intel
Post by n7axw   » Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:24 pm

n7axw
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5984
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:54 pm
Location: Viborg, SD

Andrea hadn't been promoted to captain prior to Honor stepping in and intervening on her behalf. Santino, on the other hand was an admiral, although I don't remember what grade. So there was no possibility or any sort of remedial aaction on her part.

Don

-
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
Top

Return to Honorverse