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[Spoiler - UH] utube snippet

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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by quite possibly a cat   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:06 pm

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You'd need to find/make some "fanatic loyalty" gene. Or maybe a "loyalty to in-group" gene. Psychopathy's defining trait is not ascribing to society's morals. Not a good trait for GAULs.
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:23 pm

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cthia wrote:Why? Because psychopathy is unstable and uncontrollable, even by the psychopath himself -- hence psychopathic. Can you really expect a psychopath to have a handle on it? The Malign are smart enough to recognize this fact. Remember, as I stated upstream, the Bardasano gene is a known psychopathic killer that was meant to be culled.

You can't count on a psychopath to be anything other than a psychopath.

"You knew I was a psychopath before you signed me up."

Anyone who would intentionally introduce psychopathy into their operations is more psychopathic than the psychopath.

But you're missing 2 thing:

1)Bardasano was still around and placed in charge, under Colin, until outside forces removed her.

2) The Malign, especially the Genetic Alignment and Uplift League, is all about Genetic improvement.

Genetics is the Malign's Golden Hammer. It solves everything. Smarter people, stronger people, more beautiful people, longer lived people - it's all in the Genetics first, then controlled environmental factors 2nd. But Genetics always first.

Like cooks in the Kitchen or horticulturists in a forest: A little tweaking can always make it better, and if it's too bad, we'll cull the worst and start again from a good branch.

So when the Genetic Alignment and Uplift League needs shocktroops, do you think they are going to get their troops off the rack or tailor made?
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:36 pm

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Theemile wrote:
cthia wrote:Why? Because psychopathy is unstable and uncontrollable, even by the psychopath himself -- hence psychopathic. Can you really expect a psychopath to have a handle on it? The Malign are smart enough to recognize this fact. Remember, as I stated upstream, the Bardasano gene is a known psychopathic killer that was meant to be culled.

You can't count on a psychopath to be anything other than a psychopath.

"You knew I was a psychopath before you signed me up."

Anyone who would intentionally introduce psychopathy into their operations is more psychopathic than the psychopath.

But you're missing 2 thing:

1)Bardasano was still around and placed in charge, under Colin, until outside forces removed her.

2) The Malign, especially the Genetic Alignment and Uplift League, is all about Genetic improvement.

Genetics is the Malign's Golden Hammer. It solves everything. Smarter people, stronger people, more beautiful people, longer lived people - it's all in the Genetics first, then controlled environmental factors 2nd. But Genetics always first.

Like cooks in the Kitchen or horticulturists in a forest: A little tweaking can always make it better, and if it's too bad, we'll cull the worst and start again from a good branch.

So when the Genetic Alignment and Uplift League needs shocktroops, do you think they are going to get their troops off the rack or tailor made?


I understand what you're selling, but are they ticking time bombs? Psychopathy of the Bardasano gene was an unintended byproduct, not an intended effect. The Bardasano gene is brilliance incorporated, but it is psychopathic, nonetheless. Yes, psychopaths can be brilliant, but they remain psychopaths. Psychopathy is the utter opposite of reliable/dependable/loyal Malignant citizens. Albeit, they are malignant! Remember Hannibal Lecter?

SoV Ch. 50 wrote:snip

He let his chair come fully upright, and his expression was somber.

“Albrecht has decided to execute Houdini,” he said flatly. “He’s decided to execute it now, and on an expedited basis.”

“That could be…complicated,” Marinescu replied after a moment.

“Complicated doesn’t begin to describe it.” Chernyshev snorted harshly. “It’s Albrecht’s thought that we can kill two birds with one stone, though.”

“Let me guess,” she said again. “He figures we can use more ‘Ballroom terror attacks’ to cover the accelerated withdrawals. And if we do that spectacularly enough, anything Zilwicki—or Pritchart, for that matter—says about the Manties’ lack of involvement will sound rather less convincing to Solarian public opinion.”

“And to Mesan public opinion, for that matter.” Chernyshev kept his voice level despite how little he liked the entire idea. Marinescu, on the other hand, actually smiled in approval…which illustrated the main reason he despised her so. Of course, it was also the main reason she’d been appointed to her current position five T-years ago.

The Bardasano genome carried some unfortunate instabilities, and Chernyshev knew there’d been serious consideration of simply culling it. The proposal had been rejected because it also produced so many highly capable, downright brilliant individuals. Isabel Bardasano had been an outstanding case of the genome’s good points out weighing its bad, in point of fact. So far as Chernyshev was aware, on the other hand, there was no known history of instability in Marinescu’s genome…which hadn't prevented Janice from being—in his considered opinion—a stone-cold psychopath.

She’d been one of the Mesan Alignment’s most effective “wet work” specialists for decades, because she was smart, she was tough, she was quick-thinking…and she really, really liked killing people. If she hadn’t been so far inside the onion, she’d have fitted in perfectly with Manpower, although her tendency to kill people probably would have cut into even Manpower’s profit margin. He hadn’t doubted for a moment that she’d actually like the notion of setting off nuclear devices in urban settings.

Having his expectation confirmed wasn’t exactly a good thing in this instance, he reflected.



One thing is obvious, at least to me. Intentionally shooting for the psychopathic gene is irrationally reckless. And any Malign entity intentionally doing so should have his own gene pool culled.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:02 pm

cthia
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I really can't understand why the Bardasano gene wasn't culled. I understand its usefulness, but having a psychopathic killer on the loose within a secret society whose livelihood depends on that secrecy and depends on conformance is idiotic.

Personally, I wonder how the tendency -- indeed the need -- to kill was kept bottled up for so long until they needed it, within their insane extended timeline.

I also wonder how the fact that the gene is psychopathic first came to light. LOL

"Oh shit! What have you done?!" Detweiler asks as she was licking the blood from the floor.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by JohnRoth   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:14 pm

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cthia wrote:I really can't understand why the Bardasano gene wasn't culled. I understand its usefulness, but having a psychopathic killer on the loose within a secret society whose livelihood depends on that secrecy and depends on conformance is idiotic.

Personally, I wonder how the tendency -- indeed the need -- to kill was kept bottled up for so long until they needed it, within their insane extended timeline.

I also wonder how the fact that the gene is psychopathic first came to light. LOL

"Oh shit! What have you done?!" Detweiler asks as she was licking the blood from the floor.


Could you please quote the textev that shows Bardisano is a psychopatic killer? I don't remember it anywhere. Mention of her line being unstable, yes, but either psychopathic or. killer, no.
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by quite possibly a cat   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:21 pm

quite possibly a cat
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cthia wrote:I really can't understand why the Bardasano gene wasn't culled. I understand its usefulness, but having a psychopathic killer on the loose within a secret society whose livelihood depends on that secrecy and depends on conformance is idiotic.

Personally, I wonder how the tendency -- indeed the need -- to kill was kept bottled up for so long until they needed it, within their insane extended timeline.

I also wonder how the fact that the gene is psychopathic first came to light. LOL

"Oh shit! What have you done?!" Detweiler asks as she was licking the blood from the floor.

I don't think it always results in psychopaths. Plus, in Honorverse genetic engineering to push intelligence has a very high tendency to also push towards violence or instability.
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:28 pm

cthia
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JohnRoth wrote:
cthia wrote:I really can't understand why the Bardasano gene wasn't culled. I understand its usefulness, but having a psychopathic killer on the loose within a secret society whose livelihood depends on that secrecy and depends on conformance is idiotic.

Personally, I wonder how the tendency -- indeed the need -- to kill was kept bottled up for so long until they needed it, within their insane extended timeline.

I also wonder how the fact that the gene is psychopathic first came to light. LOL

"Oh shit! What have you done?!" Detweiler asks as she was licking the blood from the floor.


Could you please quote the textev that shows Bardisano is a psychopatic killer? I don't remember it anywhere. Mention of her line being unstable, yes, but either psychopathic or. killer, no.


See the post two klicks upstream. Not Bardasano, per se, the Bardasano genome.

IINM, Bardasano was managed by Anisimovna. Two vultures of the same feather drink blood together.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by cthia   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:12 pm

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quite possibly a cat wrote:You'd need to find/make some "fanatic loyalty" gene. Or maybe a "loyalty to in-group" gene. Psychopathy's defining trait is not ascribing to society's morals. Not a good trait for GAULs.


Indeed, it isn't an ideal trait for anyone within either line. Especially tainting the inner Onion! To invite the trait inside the Onion is simply insane and doesn't seem to gel with the Detweiler MO. Who wants a malignant Onion? Is it a trait that festers?

It also makes me wonder who else on the radar was tainted with it. Georgia?, which would explain her actions. Jeremy?, which may suggest much about him as well. Many advances were built on the backs of others.

If a psychopathic regime calls you a psychopathic killer, you need to go get shock treatments. Pronto!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by JohnRoth   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:45 pm

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cthia wrote:I really can't understand why the Bardasano gene wasn't culled. I understand its usefulness, but having a psychopathic killer on the loose within a secret society whose livelihood depends on that secrecy and depends on conformance is idiotic.

Personally, I wonder how the tendency -- indeed the need -- to kill was kept bottled up for so long until they needed it, within their insane extended timeline.

I also wonder how the fact that the gene is psychopathic first came to light. LOL

"Oh shit! What have you done?!" Detweiler asks as she was licking the blood from the floor.


JohnRoth wrote:
Could you please quote the textev that shows Bardisano is a psychopatic killer? I don't remember it anywhere. Mention of her line being unstable, yes, but either psychopathic or. killer, no.


cthia wrote:See the post two klicks upstream. Not Bardasano, per se, the Bardasano genome.

IINM, Bardasano was managed by Anisimovna. Two vultures of the same feather drink blood together.


To me, textev means references to specific books, by chapter and page number or search term, that clearly shows your contention. I don't remember Isabel doing anything that a military general wouldn't do in a warfare situation. In fact, the only person who meets my criteria for being a bloodthirsty psychopath is Janice Marinescu, the person who is in charge of the "Ballroom atrocities." See SoV, chapter 50, p.476 for everything in one nice little package.

Granted, the first time we see Bardisano and Anisimovna together, it appears that Aldona is in control. Later we find out that this is not the case: Bardisano is much farther inside the Onion than Anisimovna, The illusion was the standard MAlign practice of subtly manipulating Manpower and other proxies into doing what they want.
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Re: [Spoiler - UH] utube snippet
Post by Brigade XO   » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:22 pm

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I thought I remembered the Gauls as being existing Onion members who were "True Believers". Nothing was mentioned about them being specificaly tailored for the job. They were already people inside at some outer level who gravitated to the Fanatic end of the spectrum. It is all about The Cause.
The problem with people who end up becoming fanatical true believers in support a any glorious cause (as they understand it and, in this case, the version that the Alignment has fed a great number of people in various layers of the Onion) is you get the same fanatical obedience to the cause and a willingness to do all sorts of things because you believe they are required, no matter what the cost. Like the one who blew the reactor of the freighter to keep it's couple of Houdini passengers (and himself and any information the captain and crew might have) from the Torch Marines.
Patriot, Martyr, Fanatic.....pick you label and slap it on. It just might be that a number of othewise usefull and otherwise non-critical modifications made to various experimental lines which are (quite unknowingly to themselves as experiments) combine to make a variation of the Skrags without the strength or the quite boosted intelegence but with a certain bias in the direction of fanaticism. Usefull if you want indepent minion guards and enforcers of policy and a certain group set of "moral standards".
All very ugly.
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