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[SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"

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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by saber964   » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:20 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:A thought that occurs to me as I reread the first two books ... do we definitively know that Travis is not Gavin's heir and the next in line for the Barony?

The other possibility, given the hint in the main series that Winterfell later becomes a Dukedom, is that Gavin is a Duchairn in waiting. Or a future Prime Minister. Or both. :)



Actually Travis is Gavin's heir younger siblings can inherit if Gavin has no children of his own. Case in point Earldom of North Hollow or the current line of succession for the house of Winton or Harrington.
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:11 am

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saber964 wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:A thought that occurs to me as I reread the first two books ... do we definitively know that Travis is not Gavin's heir and the next in line for the Barony?

The other possibility, given the hint in the main series that Winterfell later becomes a Dukedom, is that Gavin is a Duchairn in waiting. Or a future Prime Minister. Or both. :)



Actually Travis is Gavin's heir younger siblings can inherit if Gavin has no children of his own. Case in point Earldom of North Hollow or the current line of succession for the house of Winton or Harrington.


IIRC, Gavin inherited the title from his father (Travis's father was Gavin's stepfather). Thus, Gavin's heir should be one of his father's siblings or the eldest child of that sibling.
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance and also S
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:20 am

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saber964 wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:A thought that occurs to me as I reread the first two books ... do we definitively know that Travis is not Gavin's heir and the next in line for the Barony?

The other possibility, given the hint in the main series that Winterfell later becomes a Dukedom, is that Gavin is a Duchairn in waiting. Or a future Prime Minister. Or both. :)



Actually Travis is Gavin's heir younger siblings can inherit if Gavin has no children of his own. Case in point Earldom of North Hollow or the current line of succession for the house of Winton or Harrington.


Travis is Gavin's half-brother through their mutual mother, not their father(s). And it was Gavin's father who was Baron Winterfell. Now, the Crown might grant Travis the title, if EIIW is so inclined, should Gavin die without issue, and she wished to compensate Travis for all of the times he has been cut out of recognition, due to Gavins' previous association with the Chancellor. It looks like House Winton has already decided to recognize Travis despite the Navy's attempts to keep him out of the limelight (aren't "Monarch's Thanks" the personal gift of the Sovereign?). I can see Elizabeth granting Travis the title if Gavin doesn't have any issue, and there aren't any aunts, uncles or cousins on his father's side. She might even decide to upgrade Winterfell to a duchy. (Spoiler for SoV, as well).
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by EdThomas   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:50 pm

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What is HOS?
I've looked at the list of Honorverse books in the front of the earc of CtV and there don't seem to be nuthin' close to "HOS".
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 4:59 pm

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EdThomas wrote:What is HOS?
I've looked at the list of Honorverse books in the front of the earc of CtV and there don't seem to be nuthin' close to "HOS".


House of Steel.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Bluesqueak   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:11 pm

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
saber964 wrote:

Actually Travis is Gavin's heir younger siblings can inherit if Gavin has no children of his own. Case in point Earldom of North Hollow or the current line of succession for the house of Winton or Harrington.


IIRC, Gavin inherited the title from his father (Travis's father was Gavin's stepfather). Thus, Gavin's heir should be one of his father's siblings or the eldest child of that sibling.


That's what is puzzling me - Gavin refers to his grandparents, not his father, when he talks about inheriting.

The other thing is that Travis's mother is Melisande Vellacott Long. If that follows the old US naming convention, Vellacott should be her maiden name - which might imply that she didn't accept the barony, instead handing it over over to Gavin. Which would certainly explain the 'grandparents' bit, and why Gavin is Second Baron Winterfell instead of Third.

Do we definitely know Gavin inherited through his father, or are we just assuming it?
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Fox2!   » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:23 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:
The other thing is that Travis's mother is Melisande Vellacott Long. If that follows the old US naming convention, Vellacott should be her maiden name - which might imply that she didn't accept the barony, instead handing it over over to Gavin. Which would certainly explain the 'grandparents' bit, and why Gavin is Second Baron Winterfell instead of Third.

Do we definitely know Gavin inherited through his father, or are we just assuming it?


At some point, Gavin is introduced with the family name Vellacott. Melisande may have kept her first husband's name as her middle name when she married Travis' father.
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Bluesqueak   » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:57 am

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Fox2! wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:
The other thing is that Travis's mother is Melisande Vellacott Long. If that follows the old US naming convention, Vellacott should be her maiden name - which might imply that she didn't accept the barony, instead handing it over over to Gavin. Which would certainly explain the 'grandparents' bit, and why Gavin is Second Baron Winterfell instead of Third.

Do we definitely know Gavin inherited through his father, or are we just assuming it?


At some point, Gavin is introduced with the family name Vellacott. Melisande may have kept her first husband's name as her middle name when she married Travis' father.


Indeed. But did Melisande take the Vellacott name, or did Gavin take his grandparents' name when he inherited the Barony?

I would really like to find a specific line which confirms that Gavin inherited through his father - instead of this nagging suspicion that there's a 'bait and switch' going on where Travis is in fact the current Winterfell heir - because the line goes through Melisande.
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:50 pm

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Bluesqueak wrote:I would really like to find a specific line which confirms that Gavin inherited through his father - instead of this nagging suspicion that there's a 'bait and switch' going on where Travis is in fact the current Winterfell heir - because the line goes through Melisande.


The same line in Chapter 2 of ACTD identifies Gavin as the second Baron Winterfall, as some one noted above (or below, depending on how your display is configured). He states in the same area that his grandparents were among the first 50 to pay their money and take their chances with the Manticore Colony Trust. They weren't the largest investors, since they only received a barony when the constitution was redone before Manticore invited the galaxy to consider moving to Manticore to replace the population lost to the Plague. But they were among the earliest.

We also don't know how old Gavin was when he inherited the title. It may safe to assume that his father died from the Plague. , which is why the title skipped a generation. Or, as some seem to imply, Melisande allowed the title to pass over her so she could devote more time to her most precious possessions. Her dogs.
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Re: [SPOILER!!]A question to "A call to vengeance"
Post by Bluesqueak   » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:54 pm

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Fox2! wrote:
Bluesqueak wrote:I would really like to find a specific line which confirms that Gavin inherited through his father - instead of this nagging suspicion that there's a 'bait and switch' going on where Travis is in fact the current Winterfell heir - because the line goes through Melisande.


The same line in Chapter 2 of ACTD identifies Gavin as the second Baron Winterfall, as some one noted above (or below, depending on how your display is configured). He states in the same area that his grandparents were among the first 50 to pay their money and take their chances with the Manticore Colony Trust. They weren't the largest investors, since they only received a barony when the constitution was redone before Manticore invited the galaxy to consider moving to Manticore to replace the population lost to the Plague. But they were among the earliest.

We also don't know how old Gavin was when he inherited the title. It may safe to assume that his father died from the Plague. , which is why the title skipped a generation. Or, as some seem to imply, Melisande allowed the title to pass over her so she could devote more time to her most precious possessions. Her dogs.


Indeed. I've now found a line in A Call To Duty near the beginning, where Travis muses on how unimportant he is because the 'family' barony has now passed to his half brother Gavin. That's obviously where I picked up that sneaking suspicion that the barony is through Melisande's line, not Gavin's father's. Travis thinks of it as the family barony, implying that he includes himself in that 'family'.

It would be typical of Travis, though, to not realise that being next in line for the Barony makes everyone presume that he's a lot closer to his half-brother than he is. Being ignored in favour of the dogs tends to give children self esteem issues; it never would occur to Travis to see himself as an aristocrat or to think that someday he might be Baron Winterfell.

But everyone else seeing him as 'aristocratic family' would also explain why the immediate assumption of the recruiter is that he's interested in the Academy and that he'll get in. She doesn't even check his academics.
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