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Info found on Mesa

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Re: Info found on Mesa
Post by Theemile   » Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:49 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
pappilon wrote:
I can't make that assumption; can't make the leap from we're the only [therefore the biggest,baddest] polity in The 'Verse, but just in case some neobarb single system decides to declare war on us: "ARTICLE 5,498 Should war be declared on us by some uppity neobarbs with delusions of ... whatever, a state of war will automatically exist and no formal declaration will be required for the MOD to squash the uppity bug y whatever means necessary."
And an automatic war clause actually would open them up to risks of internal shenanigans.

Think High Ridge style games metastasized. Instead of refusing the declare peace in order to hang on to war powers, imagine finding some neobarb planet you can bribe the government of to declare war on the League to get emergency war powers.

OFS probably wouldn't have too much trouble finding someone crazy enough to do that for a promise of a freighter of cash and a relocation to a much nicer world after this little "war" is over.

The League is big enough to survive waiting for a quick session of the Assembly to decide whether a declaration of war against the League is worth taking seriously. If it is you'll have a declaration of war out of the Assembly in hours - just like FDR got from Congress the day after Pearl Harbor. (So after a surprise attack by Japan, followed by a declaration of war from them, followed by a declaration of war from Germany, the US Congress still had the formality of declaring the US was at war with both)


I don't see what the confusion here is - we currently have a similar system in the US - the President has IIRC 90 days to use the military as he see fit, then must get a Declaration of War from Congress to continue. The Executive order period is paid for out of the normal military spending - a Congressional Act of War opens the purse strings to fund a war.

This allows the President to react to crises, but limits the duration, and cost, of the response, So a president can't just do what he wants. Congress, is supposed to be the voice of the people, and if the people want to do it, it happens; if not, well we can vote them out in 2 years with someone who may listen to us.

SO the Solarian League charter allows the Navy to protect the League - within it's budget and means - and because it's budget is massive (just not as massive as the navy would like), the navy is easily able to handle dozens of brushfires and smackdowns simultaneously as part of it's every day policy.

The Act of War is really only needed when something occurs that cannot be handled with the daily activities of the Navy. If you need to call up the Militia (SDFs) or Reserves, you need an act of war. If you need to spend more money than you get from fees, you need an act of war. And the framers wanted to make it so difficult to go to war, that they required a unanimous decision of all members to do so. If there is such a need, the danger should be blatantly obvious to all members, and should easily pass.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Info found on Mesa
Post by Dauntless   » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:04 pm

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it is not just beowulf that thinks the system need to change. they are/were just the most vocal

remember just one planet other then beowulf votes no and the decleration of war is shot down.

don't forget that all the info that was given to the manarins has been shared with the newsis and yes 95% of the SL thinks it is just neo-barbs saying anything to try and save themselves but remember the mandrins spotted some disturbing trends coming from others. that is why they need to try and hammer beowulf to scare any others who might follow them back into line
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Re: Info found on Mesa
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:56 pm

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Theemile wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:And an automatic war clause actually would open them up to risks of internal shenanigans.

Think High Ridge style games metastasized. Instead of refusing the declare peace in order to hang on to war powers, imagine finding some neobarb planet you can bribe the government of to declare war on the League to get emergency war powers.[snip]


I don't see what the confusion here is - we currently have a similar system in the US - the President has IIRC 90 days to use the military as he see fit, then must get a Declaration of War from Congress to continue. The Executive order period is paid for out of the normal military spending - a Congressional Act of War opens the purse strings to fund a war.

This allows the President to react to crises, but limits the duration, and cost, of the response, So a president can't just do what he wants. Congress, is supposed to be the voice of the people, and if the people want to do it, it happens; if not, well we can vote them out in 2 years with someone who may listen to us.

SO the Solarian League charter allows the Navy to protect the League - within it's budget and means - and because it's budget is massive (just not as massive as the navy would like), the navy is easily able to handle dozens of brushfires and smackdowns simultaneously as part of it's every day policy.

The Act of War is really only needed when something occurs that cannot be handled with the daily activities of the Navy. If you need to call up the Militia (SDFs) or Reserves, you need an act of war. If you need to spend more money than you get from fees, you need an act of war. And the framers wanted to make it so difficult to go to war, that they required a unanimous decision of all members to do so. If there is such a need, the danger should be blatantly obvious to all members, and should easily pass.
Exactly.
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