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Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?

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Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by olddatsunfan   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:51 pm

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Are the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built to Solarian designs or Mantiocorean designs. Where they built in the Beowulf system or elsewhere?
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Theemile   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:05 pm

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olddatsunfan wrote:Are the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built to Solarian designs or Mantiocorean designs. Where they built in the Beowulf system or elsewhere?


The Beowulf SDs are not built with Manticorian Technology (We cornered David on this - there is no secret manty mode). While we are not certain what model they are, we have a line from SLN Adm. Tang stating "we know what they have".

Where they were built, we assume Beowulf - it's usually good for the local economy to do so, especially when you have the tech, and makes sense to have the ability to support them as well when you have a fleet that size.

However, that is just supposition - to the best of my knowledge, we have never been told their true origins - just not Manticorian.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:49 pm

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Theemile wrote:
olddatsunfan wrote:Are the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built to Solarian designs or Mantiocorean designs. Where they built in the Beowulf system or elsewhere?


The Beowulf SDs are not built with Manticorian Technology (We cornered David on this - there is no secret manty mode). While we are not certain what model they are, we have a line from SLN Adm. Tang stating "we know what they have".

Where they were built, we assume Beowulf - it's usually good for the local economy to do so, especially when you have the tech, and makes sense to have the ability to support them as well when you have a fleet that size.

However, that is just supposition - to the best of my knowledge, we have never been told their true origins - just not Manticorian.
I'd say rather they don't incorporate any of the Project Gram (aka Ghostrider) technology nor the Grayson inspired compensators. But Beowulf and Manticore may have been cooperative enough back whenever they were laid down that Beowulf included some the-current Mantie tech or at least Mantie inspired design choices. So potentially they could be closer to the capabilities of a 1904 PD Sphyinx or Gryphon than a Scientist.

But that's pure speculation on my part.

I'd agree that it makes some sense for Beowulf to have a small naval shipyard capable of handling SDs. With over 30 there should be enough scheduled repair and refit to keep the yard alive even if they don't replace them after
about a century (which would allow a pretty steady build rate at about a 3 year completion interval). I'm thinking just 2 or 3 SD sized slips; one primarily for constructing them, one for major refits, and maybe a 3rd for unexpected repairs when the others are tied up).
If they do have such a yard, and built their current SDs there, that would have given them much more freedom to adjust the design or incorporate proprietary cutting edge (for the time) tech. (I imagine they'd be more circumspect, and have less ability to radically change designs, if ordering SDs from a transteller's yard)

But I don't recall anything in the books saying the average age of their SDs, nor where they were built (or last refit)
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by olddatsunfan   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:58 pm

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I was pre supposing that they where build locally or ordered from Solarian shipyards. The self build makes the most sense though. Would it be safe to presume that they would have a Solarian sized screen of lighter units such as Destroyers, Light Cruisers, Heavy Cruisers and Battle Cruisers as well?
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Theemile   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:05 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Theemile wrote:The Beowulf SDs are not built with Manticorian Technology (We cornered David on this - there is no secret manty mode). While we are not certain what model they are, we have a line from SLN Adm. Tang stating "we know what they have".

Where they were built, we assume Beowulf - it's usually good for the local economy to do so, especially when you have the tech, and makes sense to have the ability to support them as well when you have a fleet that size.

However, that is just supposition - to the best of my knowledge, we have never been told their true origins - just not Manticorian.
I'd say rather they don't incorporate any of the Project Gram (aka Ghostrider) technology nor the Grayson inspired compensators. But Beowulf and Manticore may have been cooperative enough back whenever they were laid down that Beowulf included some the-current Mantie tech or at least Mantie inspired design choices. So potentially they could be closer to the capabilities of a 1904 PD Sphyinx or Gryphon than a Scientist.

But that's pure speculation on my part.

I'd agree that it makes some sense for Beowulf to have a small naval shipyard capable of handling SDs. With over 30 there should be enough scheduled repair and refit to keep the yard alive even if they don't replace them after
about a century (which would allow a pretty steady build rate at about a 3 year completion interval). I'm thinking just 2 or 3 SD sized slips; one primarily for constructing them, one for major refits, and maybe a 3rd for unexpected repairs when the others are tied up).
If they do have such a yard, and built their current SDs there, that would have given them much more freedom to adjust the design or incorporate proprietary cutting edge (for the time) tech. (I imagine they'd be more circumspect, and have less ability to radically change designs, if ordering SDs from a transteller's yard)

But I don't recall anything in the books saying the average age of their SDs, nor where they were built (or last refit)


David specifically said that Beowulf consciously made the decision not to include any advanced Manticorian hardware in their ships. That would definitely be Comps, Project Gram, Ghostrider and everything since. Other Manty Tech, well, YMMV.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by feyhunde   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:22 pm

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I think Beowulf has a profitable ship building industry. Probably no longer quite what it used to be for military ships, but after all the Impeller drive originates there.

I'm thinking Beowulf sells military ships to other core world SD's and makes the occasional sale to the SLN. I don't think Beowulf has been established as corrupt enough to play the SL patronage game, so any SLN SD's they made are going to be mothballed reserve ships made 100+ years ago. Otoh its been established more than a few league systems like having SD's in their defense forces.
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Brigade XO   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:55 pm

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that there might be more than a few after-market Manticorain upgrades to at least some of the BSDF SDs. We have been told that the upgrade of a Beowulf SD to Manticore tech would be much more expensive than building a new one. Ok, partucularly since SLN might have a regular presence in the shipyard(s) doing the work on new builds/refits. But, is isn't at least possible that there are various patches and add-ons that would let them use some Manti tech?

Amoung other things, we have been told that the two forces have or at least had been excercising together for years. They have to have been exchanging information plus finding ways to make their systems -when authorized to- talk to each other and share data.

It was clear that the commander of the BSDF force giving the ultimatim to the SLN Task Force wanting to force it's way through the Sigma Draconis terminus knew exactly what was backing her up and was comfortable with what was involved. Remember, she was the one who was sitting there in "Solly crap" with the potential of getting her force obliterated by the SLN force that outnumberd her something like 3/1 with other "Solly crap" of similar design.

If Beowulf has been selling and possibly repairing/upgrading warships using SL designs for other systems, then it is probable that there are representivies of SLN and various SL based component manufactures and the grantor of the licenses to Beowulf for the use of the designs that are on-site to observe the work and compliance with contracts? There would have to be other facilities for BSDF use that arn't available for the SLN and others to get into.

We have the example of the Beowulf Biological Survey as a cover for a special operations force of some size and complexity- and apparently unknown to SLN and others. True, they are not opperating SD..big smile. There are probably a lot of other things that are not known to the SLN-ONI.

Is it likely that a significant number of BSDF personel have enough experience to transition to RMN ships quickly? We know that Beowulf is now- at least since Oyster Bay- building all kinds of things for RMN from ship replacement and new parts for EXISTING RMN vessels plus weapons and weapons production line equipment and one can presume also production line equipment to build all that same stuff at Manticore. A lot of things are also being bult at Bolt Hole to be mated with components built at Beowulf (and when the production comes back on line at Manticore so Beowulf is going to be building a lot of that stuff for itself as well. That is where I am guessing a lot of the munitions for the Moriarty system being deployed around Beowulf is going to be comming from at the same time they are building the reloads for Manticore/Grayson etc.

I also don't think an industrialized system with good sized merhant marine and one of the largest SDF around (outside Manticore-Haven-Aldermani Empire-Grayson) is going to want to have it's own warships built elcewhere. That is paying way to much money to someone when it could be kept in their own system even if they have to restrict much of what they build to licensed standard SLN designs which "may" have a bunch of local customization that isn't included on ships they may bulild under contract for others. If they are buiding their own SDs they are probably building most of the other classes of ships they currently own even if they have only been supplying their own needs for a fair amount of time.
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:22 pm

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Beowulf probably builds their own ships of all classes. Said ships are, at minimum, backwardly compatible with SLN weapons and ECM. They may have one or two home-grown improvements added.

The thing to remember is that as of the start of the series in 1900 PD "Solarian Crap" was top-of-the-line hardware and Beowulf already had all, or most, of their SDs already in commission. That means the BSDF has Scientist Class equivalents that don't have anything more advanced than 1900-vintage Manticore tech, which isn't all that advanced over "Solarian crap."


Any improvements in the BSDF is likely to be software based with minimal hardware adjustments. There might be ancillary high-tech improvements, such as Forraker's "Donkey" for towing multiple pods, or RDs, or such. Just the software needed to interface with Apollo's light-speed control channels to multiply controllable fire-power by eight would give the BSDF an overwhelming advantage over the SLN.
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by Annachie   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:28 pm

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I was thinking that the BDSF built locally.
That they'd have some easy to implement upgrades already factored in, or easy to hide improvements to allow for other upgrades.
Similar to how the Mars cruisers were overpowered to allow for a hoped for compensator upgrade.

So better or more numerous antenna's for improved transmitters.
Extra plasma runs already built in.
Etc.
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Re: Where where the Beowulf Super Dreadnoughts built?
Post by drothgery   » Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:42 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:The thing to remember is that as of the start of the series in 1900 PD "Solarian Crap" was top-of-the-line hardware and Beowulf already had all, or most, of their SDs already in commission. That means the BSDF has Scientist Class equivalents that don't have anything more advanced than 1900-vintage Manticore tech, which isn't all that advanced over "Solarian crap."
Manticore wasn't much more technologically advanced than the SLN in 1900 (except for things that BSDF couldn't use without blowing their cover, like first-gen FTL comm and advanced missile pods), but SLN warship designs have been pretty much out of date since the introduction of the laser head. Heck, I'd take a first war era Havenite SD over a 'current' SLN design.
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