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How To Abandon Ship?

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How To Abandon Ship?
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:27 am

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How To Abandon Ship?

When the order to abandon ship is given, I'm not quite sure what follows. Does everyone immediately haul ass to a boat bay? Some abandon ship via pods. Are the pods all located in the boat bays or are there pod stations found all over the ship like emergency exits on a 'first come first served' basis?

ISTR one of Honor's Armsmen (sorry, the particulars have fled my memory) saving some of Honor's family during Oyster Bay by quickly shoving them in a pod I think. I got the feeling the pod was conveniently located. Running even a fraction of the length of a ship to one of these bays while carrying a newborn with little kids in tow would seem impossible on a Liner.

Does any of Maxx's drawings have boat bays or pod chutes? I recall that everyone won't be able to get to a boat bay because of their location at the time the order is given. I wonder if Passenger Liners are required to have enough emergency boats and pods to cover the number of passengers as is required by law now.

People in the shower, bath or john would seem to be at a disadvantage. Also, the time available to abandon ship seems awfully short. Does a ship maneuver to turn the boat bays away from incoming missiles? Is it practical to turn pod chutes away as well? Abandoning ship into the firestorm of incoming missiles doesn't seem like it would be a whole helluva lot of fun. Do passengers practice for this on a Liner? Are there elevators to quickly get to a boat bay—which would negate the present Earth teachings of never to use an elevator during fires, explosions or possible power outages?

Also, aboard a warship and a Passenger Liner, since there is no automation, is it simply a fact of life that a skeleton crew (which would be aptly named) has to remain aboard to fight/pilot the ship?

I also imagine that some boats and pods are lost due to failure to clear the ship before a catastrophic explosion.

I so wanted the movie to answer a lot of these kinds of detailed questions. Oh well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by Lord Skimper   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:34 am

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Presumably close by and located top and bottom of the ship. Likely grav plates would optimise access to escape pods which would wait till filled by a number of persons before launching.
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by jtg452   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:50 am

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cthia wrote:How To Abandon Ship?

When the order to abandon ship is given, I'm not quite sure what follows. Does everyone immediately haul ass to a boat bay? Some abandon ship via pods. Are the pods all located in the boat bays or are there pod stations found all over the ship like emergency exits on a 'first come first served' basis?

ISTR one of Honor's Armsmen (sorry, the particulars have fled my memory) saving some of Honor's family during Oyster Bay by quickly shoving them in a pod I think. I got the feeling the pod was conveniently located. Running even a fraction of the length of a ship to one of these bays while carrying a newborn with little kids in tow would seem impossible on a Liner.

Does any of Maxx's drawings have boat bays or pod chutes? I recall that everyone won't be able to get to a boat bay because of their location at the time the order is given. I wonder if Passenger Liners are required to have enough emergency boats and pods to cover the number of passengers as is required by law now.

People in the shower, bath or john would seem to be at a disadvantage. Also, the time available to abandon ship seems awfully short. Does a ship maneuver to turn the boat bays away from incoming missiles? Is it practical to turn pod chutes away as well? Abandoning ship into the firestorm of incoming missiles doesn't seem like it would be a whole helluva lot of fun. Do passengers practice for this on a Liner? Are there elevators to quickly get to a boat bay—which would negate the present Earth teachings of never to use an elevator during fires, explosions or possible power outages?

Also, aboard a warship and a Passenger Liner, since there is no automation, is it simply a fact of life that a skeleton crew (which would be aptly named) has to remain aboard to fight/pilot the ship?

I also imagine that some boats and pods are lost due to failure to clear the ship before a catastrophic explosion.

I so wanted the movie to answer a lot of these kinds of detailed questions. Oh well.

You mention 2 different situations.

When Andrew saved Honor's mom and the kids during the Oyster Bay attack, they were still on planet and in an atmospheric craft- so basically in a flying limo. They were basically ejected like the ejection seat in a real world fighter aircraft but with some sci-fi improvements like counter grav instead of a parachute and, in the case of Honor's limo, armored. They are intended to get the person to the ground safely, so are short endurance.

Escape pods on warships are completely different. They are more like lifeboats and, like lifeboats, are designed for a longer endurance and to carry more than one person. The endurance facet was proven in the Talbott engagements. Mike had the Sollies abandon ship and the endurance of the pods was so that they had enough air to stay in space for an extended period of time until the Manties could get around to gathering them up as POW's.

Don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of the ship designs and how the mechanics of getting them off the ship works. That's MaxxQ's area of expertise. Maybe he will see the post and chime in.
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 8:55 am

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cthia wrote:How To Abandon Ship?

When the order to abandon ship is given, I'm not quite sure what follows. Does everyone immediately haul ass to a boat bay? Some abandon ship via pods. Are the pods all located in the boat bays or are there pod stations found all over the ship like emergency exits on a 'first come first served' basis?

ISTR one of Honor's Armsmen (sorry, the particulars have fled my memory) saving some of Honor's family during Oyster Bay by quickly shoving them in a pod I think. I got the feeling the pod was conveniently located. Running even a fraction of the length of a ship to one of these bays while carrying a newborn with little kids in tow would seem impossible on a Liner.

Does any of Maxx's drawings have boat bays or pod chutes? I recall that everyone won't be able to get to a boat bay because of their location at the time the order is given. I wonder if Passenger Liners are required to have enough emergency boats and pods to cover the number of passengers as is required by law now.

People in the shower, bath or john would seem to be at a disadvantage. Also, the time available to abandon ship seems awfully short. Does a ship maneuver to turn the boat bays away from incoming missiles? Is it practical to turn pod chutes away as well? Abandoning ship into the firestorm of incoming missiles doesn't seem like it would be a whole helluva lot of fun. Do passengers practice for this on a Liner? Are there elevators to quickly get to a boat bay—which would negate the present Earth teachings of never to use an elevator during fires, explosions or possible power outages?

Also, aboard a warship and a Passenger Liner, since there is no automation, is it simply a fact of life that a skeleton crew (which would be aptly named) has to remain aboard to fight/pilot the ship?

I also imagine that some boats and pods are lost due to failure to clear the ship before a catastrophic explosion.

I so wanted the movie to answer a lot of these kinds of detailed questions. Oh well.
I don't remember Maxx pointing out life pod hatches on his renderings, but they might be there.

At least on warships they're pretty clearly not in the boat bays - see this snippet about abandoning the BC(P) HMS Ajax during the battle of Solon.
Storm from the Shadows wrote:Without at least one functional boat bay, small craft couldn't dock with Ajax to take her crew off, and she carried enough emergency life pods for a little more than half her total complement. There wasn't much point in carrying more than that, since only half her battle stations were close enough to the skin of her hull to make a life pod practical.


All we really know about liners is that Artemis has "outsized lifeboats". Those seem to be in lieu of emergency life pods - probably so, like on modern cruise ships, you've got trained ship's crew on each and in command over all the passengers piled into them. Even an armed liner isn't supposed to get in a gunfight with a real navy's ship - and abandoning ship due to pirate attack is just a slow way of committing suicide - they probably don't focus on the need to instantly abandon an armed liner during combat.

But I don't think you need to leave crew behind to fight the ship - at least not for long. Running defenses on canned programs isn't very effective, but it's possible to do so which could provide a few extra minutes for those crews to abandon ship if under direct fire. Also there's often enough time between salvos to abandon ship in the lull - you'd take enough damage from one salvo to necessitate abandoning ships - and be able to do so and strike your wedge before the next salvo rolls in. (But that depends on the enemy stacking pods for maximum effect rather than firing ASAP to keep pressure on the defenses)


But I bet even if we'd gotten the movie it shouldn't have shown much if any detail of an abandon ship drill. Maybe, Maybe we'd have gotten and abandon ship order followed by a cut to life pods exploding away from the ship - but even that is 30 seconds of precious screen time that could be better used for plot or character advancement...
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:07 am

cthia
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Lord Skimper wrote:Presumably close by and located top and bottom of the ship. Likely grav plates would optimise access to escape pods which would wait till filled by a number of persons before launching.

Interesting bit about the grav plates playing a part.

If the bays are located top and bottom, then so much for maneuvering the bays away from enemy fire. Of course, I don't ever recall an order to "Maneuver the ship into evac position, helmsman."

I keep fielding my memories of touring the Battleship North Carolina on several occasions and I recall that the ship decks are nothing but grated metal and the decks are traversed by small metal ladders. I try to imagine long lines of scurrying people trying to utilize these small ladders when power is unavailable, in a time limited, panicked fashion. I suppose on a warship you are taught not to bully or panic. Right, Randy Steilman.

But on a Passenger Liner, no such training would generally exist.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:11 am

cthia
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jtg452 wrote:
cthia wrote:How To Abandon Ship?

When the order to abandon ship is given, I'm not quite sure what follows. Does everyone immediately haul ass to a boat bay? Some abandon ship via pods. Are the pods all located in the boat bays or are there pod stations found all over the ship like emergency exits on a 'first come first served' basis?

ISTR one of Honor's Armsmen (sorry, the particulars have fled my memory) saving some of Honor's family during Oyster Bay by quickly shoving them in a pod I think. I got the feeling the pod was conveniently located. Running even a fraction of the length of a ship to one of these bays while carrying a newborn with little kids in tow would seem impossible on a Liner.

Does any of Maxx's drawings have boat bays or pod chutes? I recall that everyone won't be able to get to a boat bay because of their location at the time the order is given. I wonder if Passenger Liners are required to have enough emergency boats and pods to cover the number of passengers as is required by law now.

People in the shower, bath or john would seem to be at a disadvantage. Also, the time available to abandon ship seems awfully short. Does a ship maneuver to turn the boat bays away from incoming missiles? Is it practical to turn pod chutes away as well? Abandoning ship into the firestorm of incoming missiles doesn't seem like it would be a whole helluva lot of fun. Do passengers practice for this on a Liner? Are there elevators to quickly get to a boat bay—which would negate the present Earth teachings of never to use an elevator during fires, explosions or possible power outages?

Also, aboard a warship and a Passenger Liner, since there is no automation, is it simply a fact of life that a skeleton crew (which would be aptly named) has to remain aboard to fight/pilot the ship?

I also imagine that some boats and pods are lost due to failure to clear the ship before a catastrophic explosion.

I so wanted the movie to answer a lot of these kinds of detailed questions. Oh well.

You mention 2 different situations.

When Andrew saved Honor's mom and the kids during the Oyster Bay attack, they were still on planet and in an atmospheric craft- so basically in a flying limo. They were basically ejected like the ejection seat in a real world fighter aircraft but with some sci-fi improvements like counter grav instead of a parachute and, in the case of Honor's limo, armored. They are intended to get the person to the ground safely, so are short endurance.

Escape pods on warships are completely different. They are more like lifeboats and, like lifeboats, are designed for a longer endurance and to carry more than one person. The endurance facet was proven in the Talbott engagements. Mike had the Sollies abandon ship and the endurance of the pods was so that they had enough air to stay in space for an extended period of time until the Manties could get around to gathering them up as POW's.

Don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of the ship designs and how the mechanics of getting them off the ship works. That's MaxxQ's area of expertise. Maybe he will see the post and chime in.

Thanks for clearing that up. I knew I probably mangled the specifics with Andrew. I couldn't even remember that it was Andrew.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by Theemile   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:12 am

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jtg452 wrote:You mention 2 different situations.

When Andrew saved Honor's mom and the kids during the Oyster Bay attack, they were still on planet and in an atmospheric craft- so basically in a flying limo. They were basically ejected like the ejection seat in a real world fighter aircraft but with some sci-fi improvements like counter grav instead of a parachute and, in the case of Honor's limo, armored. They are intended to get the person to the ground safely, so are short endurance.

Escape pods on warships are completely different. They are more like lifeboats and, like lifeboats, are designed for a longer endurance and to carry more than one person. The endurance facet was proven in the Talbott engagements. Mike had the Sollies abandon ship and the endurance of the pods was so that they had enough air to stay in space for an extended period of time until the Manties could get around to gathering them up as POW's.

Don't know anything about the nuts and bolts of the ship designs and how the mechanics of getting them off the ship works. That's MaxxQ's area of expertise. Maybe he will see the post and chime in.


We're also forgetting that every sailor is wearing an evac suite. The Skin suite gives the wearer with hours of air and life support. So any sailor who gets to an airlock (or whole in the ship) can evac.

It was mentioned in HoS that every warship had a few old fashioned vac suits for guests to use. Also all ships (especially passenger ships) carries "evac suits" essentially an envelope with a life support device that users can zip themselves inside and skin suited or hardsuited personnel and evac them.
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:44 am

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Lord Skimper wrote:Presumably close by and located top and bottom of the ship. Likely grav plates would optimise access to escape pods which would wait till filled by a number of persons before launching.

Waiting until a certain number has filled a boat before launch is also interesting. You wouldn't want to launch with just a few people onboard. But the anxiety of those already aboard to "launch already" must be debilitating. This seems like it might be a perfect area for automation. A computer continuously monitors the time of impact of the next salvo and launches in time. Yet any current damage could result in an explosion, so that's not a given. Who is responsible for launching these boats? Surely not just anyone can do it, or a selfish group like Steilman and his crew would launch with less than a dozen.

Are the boats launched on a certain vector? How is this vector controlled? Launching toward a planet seems straightforward, but what about any landing and reentry requirements?

In the middle of space and a firestorm of missiles, what mechanism gets these boats the hell out of dodge on a safe course?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:50 am

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Jonathan's post includes a passage...
Storm from the Shadows wrote:Without at least one functional boat bay, small craft couldn't dock with Ajax to take her crew off, and she carried enough emergency life pods for a little more than half her total complement. There wasn't much point in carrying more than that, since only half her battle stations were close enough to the skin of her hull to make a life pod practical.

That is the passage I remember. It seems that some fashion of a personal mail chute, akin to the airchutes at banks where you drop your stuff in a little container and watch it while it rides on a cushion of air to the teller inside, can be utilized even deeply inside the ship to ride to the skin. An emergency grav plate chute perhaps? That is how I envisioned it before coming across this passage that Jonathan so nicely included that clearly points out the reality of shit-outta-luck duty stations.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: How To Abandon Ship?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Oct 31, 2017 10:19 am

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cthia wrote:But on a Passenger Liner, no such training would generally exist.

They probably have the equivalent of the single muster drill that modern day cruise ships have. Just after embarkation, on the way out of the first port, all the passengers are required to find their way to their emergency muster station (on some ships that's lined up next to their assigned lifeboat, on others it's just a designated common area where they could be escorted to their boat(s) by the crew.

Hardly intensive training in evacuation, but at least they've had to walk, once, to where they're supposed to go in an actual abandon ship emergency.

(If the liners are actually picking new people up in each port I assume regulations would require you to hold that drill during each departure - so each passenger has to perform it)
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