Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], kzt and 7 guests

Rachel Mayhew

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by Dauntless   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:46 am

Dauntless
Captain of the List

Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:54 am

also something to consider is that roger has prolong and so will be available to bond with for quite a while yet.

Childhood adoption is meant to be rare. we've speculated that roger is mid 20s at best.

EIII's kids have not grown up during the peace like all the others so any off planet trip even for something as important as showing the heir to the 'cats was probably low on the list of things EIII was dealing with.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by Brigade XO   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:25 pm

Brigade XO
Vice Admiral

Posts: 1945
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 11:31 am
Location: KY

Rachel goes into Saganami Island as a GSN midshipwoman. The next question is does she get a middy cruse on a RMN ship or GSN one?
I would think that ONE of the reasons Abigail was put on a RMN ship as part of the exchange program was to put her in an atmosphear which treated women as equals in the service for at least the initial part of here career with the essentialy LACK of complication of her being a Steadholders Daughter and probable complicaions in the GSN. Yes, she was required to have an Armsman with her in the RMN but that was less of a complication than her position would have been in the GSN. I wonder how many arms men she will be tasked with?
We have been shown at some of the challanges which followed other Grayson women who went through Saganami Is in Obligated Service. Now instead of "just another woman" comming in as a middy to GSN after graduation you have Rachel and all sorts of political as well as the whole women-in-service issues that still do exist.
Middy cruse on a RMN CA out in Silesia is quite a reasonable compromise. Silesia was a traditional training ground for officers and crews in the business of showing the flag, killing pirates and gaining experience. That it still has a probable crapload of bent politicians and local (from Silesian systems) governmental officials etc is just part of the mix. Having a treecat and having her commanding officer if not on up to Sarnow take advantage of that quite helpfull combination will also be good training for Rachel. Field experience in dealing with sleezeballs from way outside of her earlier range of exposure.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by glott   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:58 pm

glott
Lieutenant (Junior Grade)

Posts: 31
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:07 am
Location: Lebanon, Oregon, USA

Brigade XO wrote:Rachel goes into Saganami Island as a GSN midshipwoman. The next question is does she get a middy cruse on a RMN ship or GSN one?
I would think that ONE of the reasons Abigail was put on a RMN ship as part of the exchange program was to put her in an atmosphear which treated women as equals in the service for at least the initial part of here career with the essentialy LACK of complication of her being a Steadholders Daughter and probable complicaions in the GSN. Yes, she was required to have an Armsman with her in the RMN but that was less of a complication than her position would have been in the GSN. I wonder how many arms men she will be tasked with?
We have been shown at some of the challanges which followed other Grayson women who went through Saganami Is in Obligated Service. Now instead of "just another woman" comming in as a middy to GSN after graduation you have Rachel and all sorts of political as well as the whole women-in-service issues that still do exist.
Middy cruse on a RMN CA out in Silesia is quite a reasonable compromise. Silesia was a traditional training ground for officers and crews in the business of showing the flag, killing pirates and gaining experience. That it still has a probable crapload of bent politicians and local (from Silesian systems) governmental officials etc is just part of the mix. Having a treecat and having her commanding officer if not on up to Sarnow take advantage of that quite helpfull combination will also be good training for Rachel. Field experience in dealing with sleezeballs from way outside of her earlier range of exposure.


Bold mine.

Actually, Abigail didn't have a personal armsman assigned to her until after her midshipwoman cruise. Apparently the fact that she was by that point in the line of succession to the Owens Steading, and thus under the Grayson Constitution required to have a personal armsman, had slipped past the Keys. No doubt after the news of what happened on Refuge was brought to the Keys attention they corrected this oversight, and Mateo was recruited to be her personal armsman.

Rachel on the other hand, despite not being in the line of succession, probably had a personal armsman/woman assigned to her from the start of her time at the academy. Between a treecat and a bodyguard her first days at the academy must have been interesting. :P
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*

"...the ability of an entrenched, bureaucratic military to ignore anything which challenges its fundamental working assumptions simply cannot be exaggerated." - David Weber
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by jtg452   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:53 pm

jtg452
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 297
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:46 pm

Since nobody but me seems to think her taking her middy cruise on the Francis Mueller is a good idea, I'll be as serious as I can be (because I figure the speculation is amusing but ultimately useless) on the subject.

I figure she will end up on a RMN ship for her middy cruise for the following reasons.

1. She just went through the Manty naval academy. Part of her 'finals' is the midshipman cruise. Until the cruise is completed, she's not an officer. That's the practical excuse for the other reason.

2.She's the Protector's daughter. You know, the (admittedly, rather benevolent) tyrant that rules the entire system. Yeah, that guy. She's his kid.

Don't let Benjamin's laid back way fool you. Just because he doesn't flex that particular set of extraordinary muscles his position has doesn't mean they don't exist. Not that he would act in such a manner, but there's still the possibility that there would be some bias there. Look at what he can do if he takes the notion. Would you want to be the one to piss him off by coming down hard on his baby girl? Especially with the Grayson social focus on protecting their women? Yeah, it could make one pause- and interfere with the proper training of a promising officer candidate.

On the other hand, politics could end up getting in the way of her training either because of someone wanting to curry some favor with the Protector or as a way to strike back at the Protector through a proxy.

The Mantys, on the other hand, are much closer to being used to dealing with nobility and royalty in the midshipman's berth than the Graysons currently are. And the fact that she's a female is a nonissue completely with them. The Mantys have captains available that can make the separation between the political person of great importance and the novice officer in training. That's been proven repeatedly as various members of the Royal family have had naval careers in the past. Lucien Cortez isn't going to be drawing names at random out of a hat for the assignment but there's at least a pool of potential names.

On a Manty vessel, she could be, has to be if she's to be anything but a figure head, Midshipman Mayhew during business hours. She's on her snotty cruise, so that means every hour is business hours. If a social function- outside being invited to the Captain's Table- occurs, then the political VIP also inhabiting the same body as Midshipman Mayhew can take social precedence, only to quickly retreat once the function is over and it's time to put Snotty Mayhew back to work.

Sorry, but the GSN isn't going to be ready for her just yet. With her high social status, there will be a whole lot more 'My Lady,' instead of 'Ma'am,'.

What I mean by that is 'My Lady,' is purely social while 'Ma'am', is professional. Honor could pull it off because she made her bones as 'Ma'am,' the term of respect for a professional female officer, before she became 'My Lady', the term of respect for a female Steadholder. As a matter of fact, she earned 'My Lady,' by being 'Ma'am'.

Rachel hasn't got the professional chops- yet- to get the respect (no matter how small it may be) her rank deserves.

Either way, her Armsman (Armsmen? how many is she going to be required to have?) isn't going to be an issue.

First, they don't just round folks up at random to be Grayson Armsmen much less to be the personal Armsman of those that require one.

Second, this isn't the RMN's first time at this kind of rodeo. They know the deal and you can bet that both the ship she's assigned to AND her Armsman(plural?) will end up getting briefed on what has worked and not worked in the past. Again, both sides are going to be selecting who is where and doing what very carefully so things run efficiently and smoothly.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:05 pm

ldwechsler
Captain of the List

Posts: 419
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 11:15 am

jtg452 wrote:Since nobody but me seems to think her taking her middy cruise on the Francis Mueller is a good idea, I'll be as serious as I can be (because I figure the speculation is amusing but ultimately useless) on the subject.

I figure she will end up on a RMN ship for her middy cruise for the following reasons.

1. She just went through the Manty naval academy. Part of her 'finals' is the midshipman cruise. Until the cruise is completed, she's not an officer. That's the practical excuse for the other reason.

2.She's the Protector's daughter. You know, the (admittedly, rather benevolent) tyrant that rules the entire system. Yeah, that guy. She's his kid.

Don't let Benjamin's laid back way fool you. Just because he doesn't flex that particular set of extraordinary muscles his position has doesn't mean they don't exist. Not that he would act in such a manner, but there's still the possibility that there would be some bias there. Look at what he can do if he takes the notion. Would you want to be the one to piss him off by coming down hard on his baby girl? Especially with the Grayson social focus on protecting their women? Yeah, it could make one pause- and interfere with the proper training of a promising officer candidate.

On the other hand, politics could end up getting in the way of her training either because of someone wanting to curry some favor with the Protector or as a way to strike back at the Protector through a proxy.

The Mantys, on the other hand, are much closer to being used to dealing with nobility and royalty in the midshipman's berth than the Graysons currently are. And the fact that she's a female is a nonissue completely with them. The Mantys have captains available that can make the separation between the political person of great importance and the novice officer in training. That's been proven repeatedly as various members of the Royal family have had naval careers in the past. Lucien Cortez isn't going to be drawing names at random out of a hat for the assignment but there's at least a pool of potential names.

On a Manty vessel, she could be, has to be if she's to be anything but a figure head, Midshipman Mayhew during business hours. She's on her snotty cruise, so that means every hour is business hours. If a social function- outside being invited to the Captain's Table- occurs, then the political VIP also inhabiting the same body as Midshipman Mayhew can take social precedence, only to quickly retreat once the function is over and it's time to put Snotty Mayhew back to work.

Sorry, but the GSN isn't going to be ready for her just yet. With her high social status, there will be a whole lot more 'My Lady,' instead of 'Ma'am,'.

What I mean by that is 'My Lady,' is purely social while 'Ma'am', is professional. Honor could pull it off because she made her bones as 'Ma'am,' the term of respect for a professional female officer, before she became 'My Lady', the term of respect for a female Steadholder. As a matter of fact, she earned 'My Lady,' by being 'Ma'am'.

Rachel hasn't got the professional chops- yet- to get the respect (no matter how small it may be) her rank deserves.

Either way, her Armsman (Armsmen? how many is she going to be required to have?) isn't going to be an issue.

First, they don't just round folks up at random to be Grayson Armsmen much less to be the personal Armsman of those that require one.

Second, this isn't the RMN's first time at this kind of rodeo. They know the deal and you can bet that both the ship she's assigned to AND her Armsman(plural?) will end up getting briefed on what has worked and not worked in the past. Again, both sides are going to be selecting who is where and doing what very carefully so things run efficiently and smoothly.


Keep in mind as well that Abigail was the first Grayson female midshipman. I don't think Rachel will be the second. While nothing directly as been written, I don't think, there are several years between their attendance at the school. Figure Abigail has been in about four or five years and took the four year curriculum. That would put about eight years between the time each started.

Chances are there have been others, possibly more than a few others. I think, however, they will be very careful about who her captain will be, if only for public relations. Perhaps on Oversteegan's flag ship would be good.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by pappilon   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:30 am

pappilon
Captain of the List

Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm

ldwechsler wrote:Chances are there have been others, possibly more than a few others. I think, however, they will be very careful about who her captain will be, if only for public relations. Perhaps on Oversteegan's flag ship would be good.


While I agree that both navies have had more GSN female middies since Miss Owens' snotty cruise. They have probably not had very many of her (Abigail's) towering political/social status. Benjamin would NOT approve of his daughter's career being disparaged because some admiral of either fleet played favorites and assigned his daughter some easy posting for her Snotty cruise.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by pappilon   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:37 am

pappilon
Captain of the List

Posts: 446
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:29 pm

jtg452 wrote:Since nobody but me seems to think her taking her middy cruise on the Francis Mueller is a good idea ...[SNIP]

Are we referring to the same Francis Mueller?

[quote"WikiFandom"]Around 1905 PD, Francis Mueller's class was among the oldest designs in the Alliance fleet. Although it was already obsolete, the ship was sent to the Protectorate of Grayson early in the First Havenite-Manticoran War; at the time it was one of the most powerful ships in the GSN, though, between the large number of converted Havenite superdreadnoughts captured at First and Second Yeltsin, and the new Grayson-built SDs and cruisers, it was soon once again in the position of an outmoded and under-armed relic.

Due to the GSN's fast expansion, there were a number of people who rose in rank beyond their level of competence. When that was realized, Grayson Command Central had these officers and crewmen shuffled off to Francis Mueller, where they were not much of a bother.[/quote]

This ship is the one you are seriously wanting to post Rachael Matthews to? The wackiest ship in the Grayson Navy.

Or was it replaced/destroyed after OB and I missed it?
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by jtg452   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:54 am

jtg452
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 297
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:46 pm

pappilon wrote:
jtg452 wrote:Since nobody but me seems to think her taking her middy cruise on the Francis Mueller is a good idea ...[SNIP]

Are we referring to the same Francis Mueller?

[quote"WikiFandom"]Around 1905 PD, Francis Mueller's class was among the oldest designs in the Alliance fleet. Although it was already obsolete, the ship was sent to the Protectorate of Grayson early in the First Havenite-Manticoran War; at the time it was one of the most powerful ships in the GSN, though, between the large number of converted Havenite superdreadnoughts captured at First and Second Yeltsin, and the new Grayson-built SDs and cruisers, it was soon once again in the position of an outmoded and under-armed relic.

Due to the GSN's fast expansion, there were a number of people who rose in rank beyond their level of competence. When that was realized, Grayson Command Central had these officers and crewmen shuffled off to Francis Mueller, where they were not much of a bother.


This ship is the one you are seriously wanting to post Rachael Matthews to? The wackiest ship in the Grayson Navy.

Or was it replaced/destroyed after OB and I missed it?[/quote]
Yep, the same one.

Think of all the fun that could be had with that scenario. Of course, they'd never let the 'Fearsome Frankie' leave the Yeltsin system.

I'm also the one that's been asking for a sequel to 'A Ship Called Francis'.

Combine the Frankie with their Havenite equivalent (maybe even led by a Legislaturalist captain that nobody in any of the succeeding regimes bothered to remove from command) and send them on a 'joint patrol exercise' in some out of the way system where they have to face a SLN detachment- led by a BF officer that is convinced that Manties, Graysons and Havenites are all 3 meters tall tactical geniuses and are probably grazer proof.

They blunder around, he overthinks (and misinterprets) their every move while looking for the 'trap' he knows must be present until help arrives.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by Dauntless   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 9:14 am

Dauntless
Captain of the List

Posts: 673
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:54 am

while that does sound quite promising i'm not convinced that anyone would send rachel there.

heck after the losses of OB they may have decided the ship is too useful to be left with the misfits and given it an actual semi sane crew.
Top
Re: Rachel Mayhew
Post by Theemile   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:32 am

Theemile
Admiral

Posts: 2858
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 4:50 pm
Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

pappilon wrote:
jtg452 wrote:Since nobody but me seems to think her taking her middy cruise on the Francis Mueller is a good idea ...[SNIP]

Are we referring to the same Francis Mueller?

[quote"WikiFandom"]Around 1905 PD, Francis Mueller's class was among the oldest designs in the Alliance fleet. Although it was already obsolete, the ship was sent to the Protectorate of Grayson early in the First Havenite-Manticoran War; at the time it was one of the most powerful ships in the GSN, though, between the large number of converted Havenite superdreadnoughts captured at First and Second Yeltsin, and the new Grayson-built SDs and cruisers, it was soon once again in the position of an outmoded and under-armed relic.

Due to the GSN's fast expansion, there were a number of people who rose in rank beyond their level of competence. When that was realized, Grayson Command Central had these officers and crewmen shuffled off to Francis Mueller, where they were not much of a bother.


This ship is the one you are seriously wanting to post Rachael Matthews to? The wackiest ship in the Grayson Navy.

Or was it replaced/destroyed after OB and I missed it?[/quote]

The “Francis Mueller” was an old ex-RMN Warrior class, 3 of which were transferred to GSN service and named the “Berilynko” class. These were old ships – first built in 1794 and the last were removed from RMN service in 1906, soon after the first war started. This is the same class that Honor served on for her Middy Cruise (“War Maiden”), and the ship was considered old and nearing obsolesce then. Oddly, all 3 were still in the GSN as of March 1920, with the GSN apparently taking no CA casualties in the first war.

Going forward, the GSN was building their Sag-C analogues (“Burleson” class), with 17 completed by May of 1921 and more under construction. With a 1920 CA count of 60 CAs, and no analogue of the Sag-B having been built, it is possible that the plan was for the Burlesons to replace all the GSN’s CAs on a 1:1 basis, with each Burleson able to do far more than double the firepower of the ship it replaced.

Most pointedly, given this rapid buildup, it is also probable that the Warriors were put to pasture in 1921, with each Warrior’s retirement giving sufficient crew to man 2 Sag-Cs. Compared to the Sag-Cs – even with updates, the Warrior was nothing but a presence unit, with 1/2 (or less) the firepower and capabilities of the rest of the GSN’s older CAs.

So by July 1922, the Francis Mueller may be no more...

...Unless a paperwork screwup occurred...
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
Top

Return to Honorverse