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Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5

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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by kzt   » Tue Oct 03, 2017 12:54 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:I remembered that Thandi was the result of rather brutal natural selection in an extreme environment rather than the result of deliberate genetic engineering. I didn't remember her metabolism, and you're right, that was an Eric-sim. And, to be honest. some of the more extreme consequences of her adaptation are probably stated a bit more strongly than I'd have done it on my own. The comment about her bone density being so great that she can't float, for example.

I remember talking to someone who had the job in the navy of ensuring/training people to swim. He found a lot of the better conditioned black guys couldn't passively float. They had too much muscle and too little body fat that they had to do something active to keep on the surface. Plus the majority of them had never learned to swim until the joined the navy. So it's not unreasonable.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by Relax   » Tue Oct 03, 2017 1:44 pm

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kzt wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:I remembered that Thandi was the result of rather brutal natural selection in an extreme environment rather than the result of deliberate genetic engineering. I didn't remember her metabolism, and you're right, that was an Eric-sim. And, to be honest. some of the more extreme consequences of her adaptation are probably stated a bit more strongly than I'd have done it on my own. The comment about her bone density being so great that she can't float, for example.

I remember talking to someone who had the job in the navy of ensuring/training people to swim. He found a lot of the better conditioned black guys couldn't passively float. They had too much muscle and too little body fat that they had to do something active to keep on the surface. Plus the majority of them had never learned to swim until the joined the navy. So it's not unreasonable.

Depending on how in shape I was, I would either sink or float. I learned to swim when I was a kid and not in shape. I then took up running basketball etc. Next summer went swimming and found out I couldn't float anymore without some motion... I am not big boned at all. Average.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by runsforcelery   » Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:13 pm

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Relax wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:I remembered that Thandi was the result of rather brutal natural selection in an extreme environment rather than the result of deliberate genetic engineering. I didn't remember her metabolism, and you're right, that was an Eric-sim. And, to be honest. some of the more extreme consequences of her adaptation are probably stated a bit more strongly than I'd have done it on my own. The comment about her bone density being so great that she can't float, for example.


kzt wrote:
I remember talking to someone who had the job in the navy of ensuring/training people to swim. He found a lot of the better conditioned black guys couldn't passively float. They had too much muscle and too little body fat that they had to do something active to keep on the surface. Plus the majority of them had never learned to swim until the joined the navy. So it's not unreasonable.


Depending on how in shape I was, I would either sink or float. I learned to swim when I was a kid and not in shape. I then took up running basketball etc. Next summer went swimming and found out I couldn't float anymore without some motion... I am not big boned at all. Average.


Oh, absolutely! When I was in the midst of my misspent youth, I had some of the same problem. For that matter, in the year when the adolescent growth spurt hit wiith a vengeance, I couldn't understand why I was spending so much time on the bnottom of the pool! I'm saying that I would have had some serious second thoughts about Victor's assertion that Thandi would find it harder (the implication is "next to impossible") to swim than Honor because of her greater bone density. In fact, Honor's bones are probably denser than Thandi's. I was speaking about a failure (on my part) to look at the logical implications of what Victor was saying and how the comparison stated/misstated the differences between Thandi and Honor, not whether or not higher body densities actually do make it more difficult to float.


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:09 pm

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It follows then that either Victor was in error regarding Honor or that both would float like rocks. Both however can swim, if they exert enough energy to plane at the surface. One also suspects that their muscle density and the volume of air their lungs hold play a part s well. Thandi masses more than Honor and the volume of air in her lungs needs to support more mass that's denser than water. This assume Honor's ratio of lung capacity to weight is more advantageous than Thandi's.

David's posts indicate that Honor's muscle has greater strength if not also greater density. Since Thandi out masses Honor, each is comparable in strength. Assuming both have muscle density greater than water and Thandi's metabolism penalty on a pound for pound basis is less severe than Honor's, Victor's statements could be consistent with David's earlier post.

All this suggests to me that Raoul will be doing a stint in diplomacy/Intel when next we meet Honor's children. Crown Prince Ensign/Midshipman Prodigious Kick-Butt and his furry partners Artemis and Jason are going to begin the next story arc transported his sister Lady Ensigh/Midshipwoman Cool-Kiss-of-Death-From-Afar to the initial hotspot.

Raoul will have height from both parents and his mother's mods with his father's mass supporting genetic gender. He may well out mass Thandi. That argues for Bahzell like strength. Boy! I can't wait to read the next arc!
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by pappilon   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 3:04 am

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PeterZ wrote:It follows then that either Victor was in error regarding Honor or that both would float like rocks. Both however can swim, if they exert enough energy to plane at the surface. One also suspects that their muscle density and the volume of air their lungs hold play a part s well. Thandi masses more than Honor and the volume of air in her lungs needs to support more mass that's denser than water. This assume Honor's ratio of lung capacity to weight is more advantageous than Thandi's.

David's posts indicate that Honor's muscle has greater strength if not also greater density. Since Thandi out masses Honor, each is comparable in strength. Assuming both have muscle density greater than water and Thandi's metabolism penalty on a pound for pound basis is less severe than Honor's, Victor's statements could be consistent with David's earlier post.

All this suggests to me that Raoul will be doing a stint in diplomacy/Intel when next we meet Honor's children. Crown Prince Ensign/Midshipman Prodigious Kick-Butt and his furry partners Artemis and Jason are going to begin the next story arc transported his sister Lady Ensigh/Midshipwoman Cool-Kiss-of-Death-From-Afar to the initial hotspot.

Raoul will have height from both parents and his mother's mods with his father's mass supporting genetic gender. He may well out mass Thandi. That argues for Bahzell like strength. Boy! I can't wait to read the next arc!


Well, there is textev that Honor can, and does in fact, swim. Not sure the implications for our young scion.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:07 am

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pappilon wrote:
PeterZ wrote:It follows then that either Victor was in error regarding Honor or that both would float like rocks. Both however can swim, if they exert enough energy to plane at the surface. One also suspects that their muscle density and the volume of air their lungs hold play a part s well. Thandi masses more than Honor and the volume of air in her lungs needs to support more mass that's denser than water. This assume Honor's ratio of lung capacity to weight is more advantageous than Thandi's.

David's posts indicate that Honor's muscle has greater strength if not also greater density. Since Thandi out masses Honor, each is comparable in strength. Assuming both have muscle density greater than water and Thandi's metabolism penalty on a pound for pound basis is less severe than Honor's, Victor's statements could be consistent with David's earlier post.

All this suggests to me that Raoul will be doing a stint in diplomacy/Intel when next we meet Honor's children. Crown Prince Ensign/Midshipman Prodigious Kick-Butt and his furry partners Artemis and Jason are going to begin the next story arc transported his sister Lady Ensigh/Midshipwoman Cool-Kiss-of-Death-From-Afar to the initial hotspot.

Raoul will have height from both parents and his mother's mods with his father's mass supporting genetic gender. He may well out mass Thandi. That argues for Bahzell like strength. Boy! I can't wait to read the next arc!


Well, there is textev that Honor can, and does in fact, swim. Not sure the implications for our young scion.

True. Of course it may be that he and Thandi have to swim faster to plane their bodies atop the water. Use more energy to swim and definitely unable to float.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:04 am

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Vince wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:Would Haven have gotten a free wish for releasing Honor when they captured her? After all, she's a genie!

No. Not because she is a genie, but because Haven didn't release Honor (she escaped from the People's Republic of Haven State Security prison planet). The Republic of Haven did release (parole) Mike Henke, but since Mike isn't a genie, they don't get a free wish.

:geek: :)


I asked would they have--implying something that didn't actually happen.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:32 am

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runsforcelery wrote:I don't think I ever said that, although at one point I had Allison comment on the fact that she didn't have access to the royal family's genetic profile. That was when she was talking to Honor in At All Costs about the possibility of teaching Nimitz sign language, I believe. The nature of the Winton mods is scarcely classified, however. The actual chart of the genome involved, on the other hand, is. This is a standard safety measure in a society where genetically tailored assassination techniques are always a possibility for anyone prepared to violate the Beowulf Code.


If you have access to the person or where the person has been you have access to their genetic profile. Think of ruses like you see in today's detective shows: recover a fork, spoon or glass that the person ate with to get their DNA. It' not foolproof but it's likely to work. That's with today's technology.

If you increase your analysis capability (and they certainly have far more than we do) the same thing applies to dead skin cells that flake off etc--merely having access to the room they had been in would enough. (We could do that today but the costs would be insane due to the amount of material that would have to be analyzed.)
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by Vince   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:19 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:I don't think I ever said that, although at one point I had Allison comment on the fact that she didn't have access to the royal family's genetic profile. That was when she was talking to Honor in At All Costs about the possibility of teaching Nimitz sign language, I believe. The nature of the Winton mods is scarcely classified, however. The actual chart of the genome involved, on the other hand, is. This is a standard safety measure in a society where genetically tailored assassination techniques are always a possibility for anyone prepared to violate the Beowulf Code.


If you have access to the person or where the person has been you have access to their genetic profile. Think of ruses like you see in today's detective shows: recover a fork, spoon or glass that the person ate with to get their DNA. It' not foolproof but it's likely to work. That's with today's technology.

If you increase your analysis capability (and they certainly have far more than we do) the same thing applies to dead skin cells that flake off etc--merely having access to the room they had been in would enough. (We could do that today but the costs would be insane due to the amount of material that would have to be analyzed.)

There was an actual case not too long ago where the suspect was invited by the police to answer questions at a police station. The suspect agreed to cooperate (he was not under arrest), but previously had refused and continued to refuse DNA testing. The detectives, after he left the station, were able to get his DNA off the chair he sat in during his questioning. They then used that DNA to test against what DNA they had recovered from the crime scene. It matched, and the suspect was then arrested and convicted on the DNA and other evidence presented in court.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #5
Post by WLBjork   » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:34 pm

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PeterZ wrote:True. Of course it may be that he and Thandi have to swim faster to plane their bodies atop the water. Use more energy to swim and definitely unable to float.

That would be ok, if Honor wasn't floating at least in one of the pool scenes in SVW - right before Nimitz bombarded her with tennis balls.
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