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YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack

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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Hans   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:45 pm

Hans
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Theemile wrote:Ummm. This isn't Star Fire. Despite the inconvenience, the defenders can still just hyper out of the system...

Hyper out?
Sure, but a BC or some Destroyers just at the hyper limit can microjump right in the direction where the vessel is heading out.
And if there are no hypercapable ships left?
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Eagleeye   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:02 pm

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Hans wrote:
Theemile wrote:Ummm. This isn't Star Fire. Despite the inconvenience, the defenders can still just hyper out of the system...

Hyper out?
Sure, but a BC or some Destroyers just at the hyper limit can microjump right in the direction where the vessel is heading out.
And if there are no hypercapable ships left?


Don't forget - you have to cover a sphere; not only a ring. So, you need a real big presence - definitely more than the GA is ready to freeze there for a long time. By the way - microjumps are known as difficult - remember Operation Icarus? The havenite attack against Basilisk? The 2nd prong, that should attack the terminus, crunched its numbers only slightly incorrect - the result should be known.

And in the present time, namely in SoV, Captain Tremaine faced a similar situation during the Battle with Admiral Tamaguchi - and decided also against microjumping, because of the errors that are bound to happen.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Theemile   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:05 pm

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Hans wrote:
Theemile wrote:Ummm. This isn't Star Fire. Despite the inconvenience, the defenders can still just hyper out of the system...

Hyper out?
Sure, but a BC or some Destroyers just at the hyper limit can microjump right in the direction where the vessel is heading out.
And if there are no hypercapable ships left?


He mentioned blockading the wormhole only. The entire hyperlimit is porus, people don't need to use the wormhole

Besides, you can go in system, then come out the other side. somewhere in the middle change course slowly and shut down your drive and coast to the hyperlimit. The Hyperlimit is huge, you cannot get everyone.
******
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Hans   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:36 pm

Hans
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Hello,

let's think about the tactical situation.
The situation how i think about is about like this:
The wormhole is probably heavy defended and in the system are, like someone mentioned, a lot of pods maybe 200,000 or more for the defense.
Ok, an attacker - the GA - has to hyper in.
What are the options then?
Of course there should also some destroyers sneak into the system and deploy drones.
It depends on:
How far away from the installations is the terminus? This should be the primary target.
How far away is the hyper limit?
How much pods are there and how far out are they deployed?
(We assume they are deployed in a well thought pattern with overlapping firezones etc.)
That means a run in costs to much and is not worth thinking about.
Shooting at the orbital stations from the distance, is also no option, because of the many people, that would be killed.

Apollo has a range of roughly 70 Million Kilometers or with a long enough ballistic distance, maybe even a bit more. To far out accuracy would be not good enough.
Out there, there are fewer pods deployed, thats something we can assume for sure. It is managable to destroy this pods and clear a path into the System till the GA ships are in the range to take out the ships which are deeper in system, especially the freighters.
And if there are some ships manage to get out?
Thats a one way, cause they can't come back into the system - the chain of delivering is interrupted.

And about the microjump - it is no problem getting close to some freighters which are much slower and shouldn't escape even if the micojump is not right on the point.
And additonally - keep some units back in hyper till you know where the runners are heading.
If the hyperlimit is very close to the star, than get out of hyper farer out, because of the data which are collected by the destroyer which has sneaked in, you now where to come out of the hyperspace and start from there.

Lots of texr and not really well structered, but i think you get what i mean.
If it is worth to go in that system with such a complex operation, thats another problem.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by JohnRoth   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:38 pm

JohnRoth
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Hans wrote:Hello,

let's think about the tactical situation.
The situation how i think about is about like this:
The wormhole is probably heavy defended and in the system are, like someone mentioned, a lot of pods maybe 200,000 or more for the defense.
Ok, an attacker - the GA - has to hyper in.
What are the options then?
Of course there should also some destroyers sneak into the system and deploy drones.
It depends on:
How far away from the installations is the terminus? This should be the primary target.
How far away is the hyper limit?
How much pods are there and how far out are they deployed?
(We assume they are deployed in a well thought pattern with overlapping firezones etc.)
That means a run in costs to much and is not worth thinking about.
Shooting at the orbital stations from the distance, is also no option, because of the many people, that would be killed.

Apollo has a range of roughly 70 Million Kilometers or with a long enough ballistic distance, maybe even a bit more. To far out accuracy would be not good enough.
Out there, there are fewer pods deployed, thats something we can assume for sure. It is managable to destroy this pods and clear a path into the System till the GA ships are in the range to take out the ships which are deeper in system, especially the freighters.
And if there are some ships manage to get out?
Thats a one way, cause they can't come back into the system - the chain of delivering is interrupted.

And about the microjump - it is no problem getting close to some freighters which are much slower and shouldn't escape even if the micojump is not right on the point.
And additonally - keep some units back in hyper till you know where the runners are heading.
If the hyperlimit is very close to the star, than get out of hyper farer out, because of the data which are collected by the destroyer which has sneaked in, you now where to come out of the hyperspace and start from there.

Lots of texr and not really well structered, but i think you get what i mean.
If it is worth to go in that system with such a complex operation, thats another problem.


Let's put some actual numbers on this. Start by assuming a 30 lm hyper limit. This is rather large, but I don't remember Yildun's spectral class. Let's also assume the cheapest missile we can get away with - that is, a Mark 16 DDM rather than a Mark 23. You don't need a whole lot of firepower to kill a freighter. Haven may have even cheaper ones with good legs.

A 30 lm hyper limit has @ 11,300 square lm of surface area. (4*pi*r**2). A missile with a 30 lm powered range can cover an approximately 2,827 lm surface. Doubling it up because circles don't tile a plane requires a whopping 8 shoals of pods. Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:47 pm

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Hans wrote:let's think about the tactical situation.
The situation how i think about is about like this:
The wormhole is probably heavy defended and in the system are, like someone mentioned, a lot of pods maybe 200,000 or more for the defense.


Heavily defended against whom? There's little or no threat to Yilun prior to the GA declaring war, and likely little belief that Yildun is going to be attacked, given its distance from Manticore. Since Technodyne doesn't have any contracts for system defense pods, (or didn't as of the Monica plot,) they likely don't have a huge stockpile to deploy on short notice.

Your hypothetical scout may well be pleasantly surprised at thee pre-war level of defense preparedness.

Hans wrote:Shooting at the orbital stations from the distance, is also no option, because of the many people, that would be killed.

Apollo has a range of roughly 70 Million Kilometers or with a long enough ballistic distance, maybe even a bit more. To far out accuracy would be not good enough.


I think shooting at the stations is no option at almost any range. Probably also a bad idea if you want to get any intel on the MAlign. (a MAlign driven self destruct, presented by Sollie media as another atrocity, is definitely a factor to consider.)

Hans wrote:If it is worth to go in that system with such a complex operation, thats another problem.


Yildun is only worthy of GA attention because of Technodyne's involvement in the Monica Plot and because of the WHJ. The WHJ can be blockaded from the termini and taking down Technodyne can be done through removing all facilities outside Yildun.

There is really nothing worth the effort in Yildun proper. Just blockade the WHJ's termini and isolate Technodyne HQ from its subsidiaries.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by kzt   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:58 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.

There are no fancy huge grav sensors that the RMN has access to in Yildun, and the control centers and pods are essentially stationary. So if you knew there were a huge number of extremely valuable artifacts close to the hyper limit of an allied system, someone could tell you exactly where they were and you had the ability to send invisible ships in what would you do?
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by n7axw   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:50 pm

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Just a note. Technodyne was paying attention to what was going on in the Haven sector all along and probably became quickly aware of how the game changed after buttercup. These people weren't your average clueless Solly.

Secondly, Yildun is a major producer of military hardware. One doesn't have to believe that they are the League's only producer of military hardware to make that observation.

That does make it a priority military target. Think what happened to "The Yard" -- along with the civilian support structure in the Starfire series.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:53 pm

runsforcelery
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kzt wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.

There are no fancy huge grav sensors that the RMN has access to in Yildun, and the control centers and pods are essentially stationary. So if you knew there were a huge number of extremely valuable artifacts close to the hyper limit of an allied system, someone could tell you exactly where they were and you had the ability to send invisible ships in what would you do?


That's so mean. :shock:

You really think those nice Mesa people would do that to their Manticoran friends? Truly?! :cry: :cry:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by kzt   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:03 pm

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runsforcelery wrote:That's so mean. :shock:

You really think those nice Mesa people would do that to their Manticoran friends? Truly?! :cry: :cry:

Well, you know, yes.

Though if I was an MA honcho I’d have sent a couple of ships to go chase down unexploded missiles post BoM 1. Might not have worked, but it might have worked and is worth the attempt. I’d probably go after RHN missiles if I had to choose only one, they a much more likely to be immediately ready to duplicate, and without that reactor more likely to not go boom when it should.
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