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YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack

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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by feyhunde   » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:13 pm

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kzt wrote:
runsforcelery wrote:That's so mean. :shock:

You really think those nice Mesa people would do that to their Manticoran friends? Truly?! :cry: :cry:

Well, you know, yes.

Though if I was an MA honcho I’d have sent a couple of ships to go chase down unexploded missiles post BoM 1. Might not have worked, but it might have worked and is worth the attempt. I’d probably go after RHN missiles if I had to choose only one, they a much more likely to be immediately ready to duplicate, and without that reactor more likely to not go boom when it should.



Honestly from the snips, I'm expecting more manufactured atrocities. It seems like the entire MAlignment plan would be (to them) furthered if all us normies got in brutal wars where planetary bombardment, weaponized nano and bioweapons were on the table. EG redo Earth's Final War with the Renaissance Factor being the good guys with the moral high ground Beowulf had.

Which does not bode well for Beowulf in the near term plans.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by JohnRoth   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:33 am

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JohnRoth wrote:Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.


kzt wrote:There are no fancy huge grav sensors that the RMN has access to in Yildun, and the control centers and pods are essentially stationary. So if you knew there were a huge number of extremely valuable artifacts close to the hyper limit of an allied system, someone could tell you exactly where they were and you had the ability to send invisible ships in what would you do?


runsforcelery wrote:That's so mean. :shock:

You really think those nice Mesa people would do that to their Manticoran friends? Truly?! :cry: :cry:


It would be a great way for the GA to test out their new, top-secret spider drive detector. Otherwise, how would you know it works if you don't have a spider drive to test it on?
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by ldwechsler   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 8:42 am

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JohnRoth wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.


kzt wrote:There are no fancy huge grav sensors that the RMN has access to in Yildun, and the control centers and pods are essentially stationary. So if you knew there were a huge number of extremely valuable artifacts close to the hyper limit of an allied system, someone could tell you exactly where they were and you had the ability to send invisible ships in what would you do?


The Manticore fleet has used its tech superiority to take down major bases before.Think about Trevor's star. That was very well-manned while Yildun probably is not. Send in stealthed drones and then from as long a range as possible send in the pods.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:09 am

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JohnRoth wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:Pair each one with a Mycroft control station and throw in a lot of Ghost Rider drones, and you've got the system interdicted.


kzt wrote:There are no fancy huge grav sensors that the RMN has access to in Yildun, and the control centers and pods are essentially stationary. So if you knew there were a huge number of extremely valuable artifacts close to the hyper limit of an allied system, someone could tell you exactly where they were and you had the ability to send invisible ships in what would you do?
ldwexhsler wrote:The Manticore fleet has used its tech superiority to take down major bases before.Think about Trevor's star. That was very well-manned while Yildun probably is not. Send in stealthed drones and then from as long a range as possible send in the pods.


Which is why I chose White Haven to lead the assault, because of his very specialized training obtained at the hands of a Roman flogging.

Like Jesus, wasn't Hamish... Imageflogged forty times by Esther McQueen before seizing Trevor's Star?

"This is what you get, for phucking around with Peeps! Go home to your mother!"

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by cthia   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 11:46 am

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Cannot several stealthed drones be embedded into the system to keep an eye on the henhouse to see where the special eggs are being lain and hatched -- the pods, military habitats, freighter deliveries and the like?

"Seems these drones've been some very busy little bees, Captain."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by saber964   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:37 pm

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pappilon wrote:
cthia wrote:
About Technodyne, your point (2) regarding the effect of collapsing Technodyne would be a good thing, no?

However (3) has always been a source of my discomfort. Technodyne doesn't know what's going on in the Haven sector -- or rather they didn't, which begs the question of whether their design limitations aren't inherent, but rather are rooted in perception instead of conception. IOW, now that the SLN has informed them of the range of Manty missiles that they are now looking into the matter and it will only be a matter of time. Which also makes one appreciate the RMN's policy from the beginning of never unveiling Apollo's true range. As my sister is fond of saying, "There are spies amongst the flies on the wall."


(1) IFF all of Teledyne's manufacturing, R&D etc is solely located at Yildun, Taking Yildun collapses Technodyne. textev suggests such is not the case. If you seize corporate HQ you deal the corporaton a blow, but the pieces should be able to continue as long as the orders and payments come pouring in.

(2) Granted Technodyne does not know how whatever is going on is going on. However we have 2 neobarbs hurtling rocks at each other. (A) IIRC in the beginning it was Plucky Little Manticore about to be crushed by the Evil Empire of Haven. Then suddenly Manticore the-not-so-plucky-little ws handing the EE its head in every engagement.(B) EE starts cadging tech from the suppliers to the biggest baddest a-number-1 fleet in the known universe. Big cheer goes up: Now those thevin' connivin' cargo stealin' Manties will get theirs. Except ... they don't. If Technodyne does not have a clue that something is going on then (C) there is a cessation of hostilities and when it resumes EE is no longer interested in your top=of=the-line tech. yet the war goes on.

Granted the SLN is clueless, who cares about two neobarbs throwing rocks at each other? Technodyne knows what is going on, it is probably not ignoring all those observers, they did develop pods for system defense after all. Even Haven and her tech witchiness have trouble reverse engineering Manty tech. they figure out what but do their own thing about how.

Yes the supplier of munitions et al to the biggest baddest fleet in the universe is a little myopic, the SLN has no real interest in weapons development besides tweaks in electronics, materials, etc. Technodyne has no monetary interest in developing new and exotic weapons systems that the only conceivable purchaser does not want. Without the fear of being engulfed by ... anyone, there is no perceived need for spending relatively scarce money on spurious R&D programs.

Collapsing Technodyne would be like trying to collapse Boeing Aircraft today. Boeing's HQ is in Chicago it's manufacturing facilities are in Dallas TX, Kent and Renton WA Long Beach CA St. Louis MO Wichita KS and Columbia SC. This doesn't include joint ventures with foreign companies like BA, Thompson CFS, Mitsubishi and Hyundai.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by pappilon   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:03 am

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[quote="cthia"] Collapsing Technodyne would be like trying to collapse Boeing Aircraft today. Boeing's HQ is in Chicago it's manufacturing facilities are in Dallas TX, Kent and Renton WA Long Beach CA St. Louis MO Wichita KS and Columbia SC. This doesn't include joint ventures with foreign companies like BA, Thompson CFS, Mitsubishi and Hyundai.[/quote

Thank you for making my point more solid.

Als Lacoon 2 does not seem to be a very high priority. At least not in Talbott. SoV p655 "And while the Wloclawek System wasn't a protectorate, ... its location at one end of the Wloclawek- Sarducci warp bridge made it particularly valuable. ...In the normal course of affairs, Frontier Security would be salivating at the crisis which would give them a chance to add Wloclawec to the protectorate fold. Unfortunately, affairs weren't normal at the moment, and if the Manties were behind what was happening at Wloclawek - and the system's proximity to their new Talbott Quadrant would make installing a new puppet government highly valuable to them as well. ..."

Since Scotty Tremain only made it over there on spec, looking for victims of Operation Juno and Khumalo had not sent anyone there earlier when Lacoon 2 was activated, one can assume it has a low priority.
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The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:13 am

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Eagleeye wrote:As far as I can remember, the missile range from rest, if you only fire the 3 drives one after another without any ballistic phase included, is somehow around 64 million kilometers. Honor herself conceded to Tourville (in MoH, I think), that he was out of effective range of her ships in the BoMa, because he was around a 100 million kilometers away. And even for the attack against Admiral Chin in the same battle, Honor needed a ballistic segment - and Chin was no more than 72.93 million kilometers away (according to AaC, Chapter 68)


Apollo (and any ballistic-capable multi-drive missile) have nearly infinite range (it's not completely infinite because the target can zig while the missile is ballistic. If the ship can move farther than the remaining range on the missile it escapes.) The question is how effective they will be when they reach their targets.

Honor fired a small grouping of missiles at Tourville to demonstrate that her missiles could be effective at that range--but this was a bluff. She could have pinpricked him repeatedly at that range but she didn't have the control capability to do to Tourville what she did to Chin.
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:52 am

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cthia wrote:Cannot several stealthed drones be embedded into the system to keep an eye on the henhouse to see where the special eggs are being lain and hatched -- the pods, military habitats, freighter deliveries and the like?

"Seems these drones've been some very busy little bees, Captain."


And when you know where the important military stuff is another strategy occurs to me. We've already seen a c-frac strike by LACs, how about a c-frac by system defense pods? Send them coasting through the system ala Oyster Bay. We have already seen they can control at least a few Apollo missiles at huge ranges and Technodyne isn't going to have meaningful defenses against a missile screaming in close to lightspeed even if they manage to get their defenses up in time. It doesn't matter how many nasty pods they have hidden in their system as they never have a worthwhile target. Sure, they could engage the pods but by the time they have a location the pod is empty.

(The SLN can't do that to the GA because it requires the ability to operate in the outer part of the star system. Technodyne doesn't dare stick it's nose out beyond it's defenses, the GA has no such limitation.)
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Re: YILDUN - such a tough nut to crack
Post by Weird Harold   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:27 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:And when you know where the important military stuff is ...


We know where the "important military stuff" is. It's a couple of bulkheads away from the Family Quarters, Bachelor Barracks and "Entertainment" (red light) compartments.

We have been told (repeatedly) that the manufacturing, military, residential, and commercial areas of Yildun's orbital habitats are all jumbled together and there is no habitable planet to evacuate anyone to.

It is my distinct impression that the only way to target the "military" targets in Yildun is with the "boots on deck-plates" of a full scale boarding operation. (Recall Thandi Palane's capture of Torch's orbital station and multiply by 100 or 1000.)
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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