Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 36 guests

Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by ldwechsler   » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:42 am

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm

For those predicting an attack on Torch, note RFC's point that the Alliance leadership is going out of its way to denounce Manpower. Attacking Torch would ruin that or at least let really good analysts (Zilwicki and Cachat, for example) start looking for enemies.

I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.

It would nicely take attention away from itself while it worked on the genetic things.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:32 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Das ganze Durcheinander Messerschmitts.

lyonheart wrote:Hello RunsForCelery!

I assumed the Shrike tractors had only a couple because they were mass/space limited so that they couldn't carry the masses some fans suggested, while coast guard type LAC's would have more tractor capability as part of their job description, so the old LAC's of Nuncio could tow the Emerald Dawn to Pontifex rather easily.

My ball park figure for a RMN ten Mk-23 missile pod with the on-board fusion reaction is 2000 tons or less, while RHN 16 missile pods are nearer 3000 tons, though that's never been baldly stated, IIRC.

My concern regarding tractoring pods was the mass ratio, forex from Monica, 40 for a Sag-C was about a sixth, the SK's a bit less, but the Chanson class with ten pods was near a quarter, the light cruisers with their 15 between 20-22%, and while the SD's in AAC at Manticore tractoring 580 was only 13-14.5% of 8-8.5 Mt, that's still a lots of mass to manage.

Anyone else remember Bugs Bunny's "a whole mess of Messerschmidt's!"? ;) 8-)

Still, towing something 30 times the Katana's mass is very impressive given the previous implied limits, though being of the latest type and without tugs on-board, possibly for that very reason, if towing did become necessary.

But I loved the story [GREAT!], and if someone as good as Tamaguchi could be so seemingly easily trapped, who else has a chance?

If there were time or space for it, I'd love to see some of the smarter known SLN POW's [FF of course] discussing just how much deeper the hole they're in is, given how ignorant they still are. :D 8-)

L
runsforcelery wrote:
munroburton wrote:quote="Duckk"And I don’t recall off the top of my head – not saying there wasn’t one, just that I don’t recall it — an instance in which a Shrike towed 2,000,000 tons of pods at 700 gravities. A Shrike’s maximum acceleration rate is only about 640 gravities and 2,000,000 tons of pods would be somewhere in excess of 670. I don’t really think I’ve had anybody towing that many pods without Shannon Foraker’s donkeys. A Shrike is about 20,000-22,000 tons, and it can easily tow four or five times its own mass at moderate percentages of its maximum acceleration rate without compromising its stealth capability, so 35-40 Mark 23 pods would be easy. Considerably heavier loads could be towed (assuming sufficient tractor capacity). Can you give me textev where I have them towing numbers much greater than that, under stealth, at an acceleration higher than 400 gravities? I’m not saying that I haven’t done it; only that I don’t remember doing it and that if I did, I had committed a tactical faux pas.quote

Kzt is probably referring to the CUMV(L)s dropped by the FSVs in SoV.

"Each of the unmanned, automated vehicles had the capability to stow up to three hundred Mark 23 flatpack missile pods,"

Two LACs were with two of those things, I think. I'm confused by the arrangements myself - it mentions that those CUMVs have separate propulsion units, but doesn't explictly state they were used.


I apologize for not being clearer in that passage.

Yes, the LACs are "towing" the pods, but at only a fraction of their maximum power which is being "piggybacked" to the pod's own movement capability. They are accelerating at an even lower rate than Scotty's warships because they don't make turnover; they just go right on accelerating, which carries them passed the warships which do have to reverse acceleration. They are also positioned directly between the pods (which already have very weak impeller signatures) and the Solarians sensors, creating a shadow in which the pods can hide.

I thought that was clear from the relative positioning and velocity of the pods and the warships at the moment Scotty opens fire, but I can see where it might not have been quite as obvious as I'd thought it was.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by quite possibly a cat   » Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:14 am

quite possibly a cat
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 341
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 7:51 am

RFC responded to me! :shock:

That was like 90% tongue in cheek!


runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor and the Renaissance Association are not associated in any way. Oh, my, of course not!

Thank god that the Renaissance Association and the Renaissance Factor aren't friends. :D

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor's name, on the other hand, was chosen with malice aforethought, for two reasons.
Those obnoxious jerks! Oh crap, I hope you didn't think "obnoxious" applied in anyway to you. :oops: You're wonderful, keep being wonderful!

On the Grayson stuff: Generally evolution does a pretty good job of cleaning up traits that cause spontaneous abortions. It occurs to me that Allison might not go into complicated details that weren't really needed. In fact, it probably should have occurred to me a lot sooner since I did something similar by invoking "weirdness" when I didn't want to go into more detail! Now I just feel stupid. :oops:

Well, now my medicine cabinet only has "People acting like realistic humans."

P.S. It really in incredible how well thought out this stuff is.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by ldwechsler   » Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:56 pm

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm

quite possibly a cat wrote:RFC responded to me! :shock:

That was like 90% tongue in cheek!


runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor and the Renaissance Association are not associated in any way. Oh, my, of course not!

Thank god that the Renaissance Association and the Renaissance Factor aren't friends. :D

runsforcelery wrote:The Renaissance Factor's name, on the other hand, was chosen with malice aforethought, for two reasons.
Those obnoxious jerks! Oh crap, I hope you didn't think "obnoxious" applied in anyway to you. :oops: You're wonderful, keep being wonderful!

On the Grayson stuff: Generally evolution does a pretty good job of cleaning up traits that cause spontaneous abortions. It occurs to me that Allison might not go into complicated details that weren't really needed. In fact, it probably should have occurred to me a lot sooner since I did something similar by invoking "weirdness" when I didn't want to go into more detail! Now I just feel stupid. :oops:

Well, now my medicine cabinet only has "People acting like realistic humans."

P.S. It really in incredible how well thought out this stuff is.



MAlign by any other name is still malignant.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:16 am

Loren Pechtel
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1324
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:24 pm

kzt wrote:Power cords, lack thereof. - This is really more general pod issues. I understand the plot related reasons, but this is just absurd. Particularly as you don't need to run the reactor as the ship in in zero g. Metal industrial velcro (hook and loop) would work just fine.


Velcro would work fine to hold the pods on under main drive. It would be totally useless against holding the pods on when the attitude thrusters fire.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by kzt   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:57 am

kzt
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 11337
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:18 pm
Location: Albuquerque, NM

Loren Pechtel wrote:
kzt wrote:Power cords, lack thereof. - This is really more general pod issues. I understand the plot related reasons, but this is just absurd. Particularly as you don't need to run the reactor as the ship in in zero g. Metal industrial velcro (hook and loop) would work just fine.


Velcro would work fine to hold the pods on under main drive. It would be totally useless against holding the pods on when the attitude thrusters fire.

Nope
http://www.metaklett.de/en/downloads/da ... amingo.pdf

35N per cm^2 in shear. 7 if you are managing to go exactly sideways and exactly perpendicular the surface.

So why would a ship be maneuvering using plasma thrusters at 7m/sec^2 sideways with pods mounted? That's a LOT of energy being emitted. I suspect this is more akin to a giant industrial plasma cutter than a attitude thruster.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by pappilon   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:11 am

pappilon
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1074
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:29 pm

ldwechsler wrote: I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.


Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The imagination has to be trained into foresight and empathy.
Ursula K. LeGuinn

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:27 am

ldwechsler
Rear Admiral

Posts: 1235
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm

pappilon wrote:
ldwechsler wrote: I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.


Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).


I doubt the plan will change that much based on the death of Detweiler. His being on Mesa at the end was an incredible blunder, of course. And his clones might change it to something dumb as we've seen in the snippets.

But the basic plan COULD still go on. But that would assume the clones will not do much and just hide and that would be lousy for the next arc. Having Honor's kids fighting (and, of course, the children of some other characters) is one thing. Having great grandchildren do it something else.
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by lyonheart   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:42 am

lyonheart
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 4853
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:27 pm

Hi LDWechsler,

Well I don't know, Albrecht made so many mistakes, one wondered if his 'sons' were planning on removing him rather soon.

Then again, given what great parents they were, their 'sons' might want a bit more revenge that exposes the MAlign at a critical point.

Then being as flawed as their 'father', trying to cope with all the changes to the great untouchable plan, they screw it up even further, possibly causing a schism and possibly even civil war, though that's rather unlikely.

Very interesting times indeed.

L


ldwechsler wrote:
pappilon wrote:quote="ldwechsler" I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.


Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).


I doubt the plan will change that much based on the death of Detweiler. His being on Mesa at the end was an incredible blunder, of course. And his clones might change it to something dumb as we've seen in the snippets.

But the basic plan COULD still go on. But that would assume the clones will not do much and just hide and that would be lousy for the next arc. Having Honor's kids fighting (and, of course, the children of some other characters) is one thing. Having great grandchildren do it something else.[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
Top
Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by cthia   » Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:41 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

lyonheart wrote:Hi LDWechsler,

Well I don't know, Albrecht made so many mistakes, one wondered if his 'sons' were planning on removing him rather soon.

Then again, given what great parents they were, their 'sons' might want a bit more revenge that exposes the MAlign at a critical point.

Then being as flawed as their 'father', trying to cope with all the changes to the great untouchable plan, they screw it up even further, possibly causing a schism and possibly even civil war, though that's rather unlikely.

Very interesting times indeed.

L

This thought is pretty much my basis for this POV, which is built atop the possibility of a rogue Detweiler clone. Detweiler may have been too successful in his attempts to create mirror images of himself. Any one of which may begin to feel delusions of grandeur. It happened with God's creation of the most beautiful angel in heaven. Why can't it happen with Detweiler and one or more of his sons also "falling from grace."


ldwechsler wrote:
pappilon wrote:quote="ldwechsler" I am not even sure they will actually push for a complete destruction of the League. After all, it would make a great straw man, particularly if it still had a larger navy than the individual planets.


Originally (MoH)According to The Universe according to The Master Plan SL lost the verge and some or all of the shell; perhaps some of the core. The shattering (not necessarily the demise)of the league encourages sector goverrnors like Oravil Barregos of Maya, but less ethical to create their own empires and taking the newly non-aligned worlds i their vicinity by forc. Admirals of FF &/or BF taking their fleets down the Silesian road of piracy (with or without OB). lawlessness and uncertainty prevail, Renaissance Factor rides in on the white horse as the harbor in the storm.

EXCEPT

By mid MoH, The Grand Alliance arises to spoke the wheels of that plan. It seems the GA does not create the extermination of SEM, threatens the destruction of the SL. Which does notallow the RF to negotiate matters between SL& RoH.

Also Death of Albrecht puts necessity for new game plan in the laps of clones B,C.D,E,F. Now we don't know what the plan is (between SoV & UH).
lyonheart wrote:I doubt the plan will change that much based on the death of Detweiler. His being on Mesa at the end was an incredible blunder, of course. And his clones might change it to something dumb as we've seen in the snippets.

But the basic plan COULD still go on. But that would assume the clones will not do much and just hide and that would be lousy for the next arc. Having Honor's kids fighting (and, of course, the children of some other characters) is one thing. Having great grandchildren do it something else.


My thread proposing a dark cloud of MAlign retribution is basically set in the future of Raoul. BUT! TBH! I am not without hopes that they will at least jump the tracks of their original plan again -- in light of their emotional rage from losing mom and dad, suffered at the hands of those damn Manties -- at least one or two scenes or skirmishes in Uncompromising Honor before they "really" retire to be dealt with again in the Raoulverse.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top

Return to Honorverse