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Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow

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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by JohnRoth   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:44 pm

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Montrose Toast wrote:The hidden Alpha is obvious: Govenor of Maya.

Think about it. Everything he is doing fits with the MAlign plan and the future RF anti-slavery policies. He is the means to coopt the expected enemies and gain some of the GA's tech...


JohnRoth wrote:I've thought for a while that there's at least one MAlign mole on Smoking Frog, but Barregos is not all that likely. If he was one of them, then the Operation Janus attempt at a false flag operation seems to be, let's say, poorly conceived. In any case, we've never seen any of the Smoking Frog crew in any action more deadly than flying a desk.


n7axw wrote:Eh?? Rosak was a member of the Smoking Frog crew. He was present orchestrating the Mayan action at Torch which was certainly more deadly than flying a desk...

Don

-


I think "deadly" was RFC's term; I took it to mean "deadly" in the sense of Victor Cachet, "Firebrand", Thandi Palaine, Honor Harrington. These are people that can create a pile of bodies personally and then calmly ask where's lunch. (At least Victor Cachet could.)

Being the Admiral of a successful fleet action is not the same thing at all. The pile of bodies might be higher, but the sense of personal danger isn't quite the same when his personal involvement is to say: "fire when ready, Gridley."
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by JohnRoth   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:48 pm

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Montrose Toast wrote:The hidden Alpha is obvious: Govenor of Maya.

Think about it. Everything he is doing fits with the MAlign plan and the future RF anti-slavery policies. He is the means to coopt the expected enemies and gain some of the GA's tech...


JohnRoth wrote:I've thought for a while that there's at least one MAlign mole on Smoking Frog, but Barregos is not all that likely. If he was one of them, then the Operation Janus attempt at a false flag operation seems to be, let's say, poorly conceived. In any case, we've never seen any of the Smoking Frog crew in any action more deadly than flying a desk.


quite possibly a cat wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if he was. I mean, doesn't he just have great timing? Being ready to go independent just when the League gets defeated? Yeah, sure he contributed to saving Torch, but that whole operation was stupid in the first place! Plus if he is with the MAlign he probably isn't simple to directly contact.

But I don't think he's the brilliant deadly one Weber mentioned. I don't remember the governor blowing up a handful of dreadnoughts or anything similar.


Operation Janus wasn't Torch. It was the false flag operation where the MAlign agents came right into his office and pretended to be Manticoran agents.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by fallsfromtrees   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:33 am

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NervousEnergy wrote: Snip OTOH, he did quite literally torpedo the MA's attempt on Torch.

The operation at Torch was not an MA operation. It was a Manpower operation, and the two are NOT one and the same
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by NervousEnergy   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:57 am

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fallsfromtrees wrote:
NervousEnergy wrote: Snip OTOH, he did quite literally torpedo the MA's attempt on Torch.

The operation at Torch was not an MA operation. It was a Manpower operation, and the two are NOT one and the same

True, but there's no way that operation would have been mounted had the Alignment thought it was a bad idea.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:25 pm

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NervousEnergy wrote: Snip OTOH, he did quite literally torpedo the MA's attempt on Torch.
fallsfromtrees wrote:The operation at Torch was not an MA operation. It was a Manpower operation, and the two are NOT one and the same
NervousEnergy wrote:True, but there's no way that operation would have been mounted had the Alignment thought it was a bad idea.

Bad idea by what standard?

I had always thought Barregos, his admiral or both were star line descended. Further, that they might be MAlign agents preparing for the rise of the Renaissance Factor. Having the hero of Maya protect a planet full of ex-genetic slaves pretty much defines him as anti-anything Mesan. Sloppy thinking, sure, but natural enough for the Honorverse.

All that cooking coincided with MAlign meetings in the earlier books taking place over a meal. Star Lines might well have some metabolism penalty for their mods.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by kzt   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:39 pm

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NervousEnergy wrote:
fallsfromtrees wrote:The operation at Torch was not an MA operation. It was a Manpower operation, and the two are NOT one and the same

True, but there's no way that operation would have been mounted had the Alignment thought it was a bad idea.

It was run by a MAN officer.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by Potato   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:45 pm

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1. The attack on Torch was totally an Alignment operation. For starters, the entirety of Chapter 15 in ToF is about the Detweilers planning the attack.

2. Barregos and Rozsak are certainly not knowing members of the Alignment. We have spent too much time with them, seen them genuinely responding to the Alignment threat, for them to be playing any kind of long con.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:18 pm

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I think that the alpha line person who most closely fills the bill here is Rear Admiral Gweon who heads the SLN's Office of Economic Analysis in Old Chicago. In fact it would be fun to discuss that briefing he gave Kolokoltzov near the end of ART.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by Potato   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:23 pm

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What? There is no ambiguity about Gweon. There is a whole scene about him meeting his handler in ART.
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Re: Top 5 Hardest Pills To Swallow
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:27 pm

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Potato wrote:What? There is no ambiguity about Gweon. There is a whole scene about him meeting his handler in ART.


Right. But apart from that, he is overlooked.

Don

_
When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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