Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3

Bewildered wrote:How widespread is knowledge of the Yawata Strike? Is it largely limited to Manticore, or is it universal knowledge? Sorry it's been a while since I read the HH series and I'm a little rusty on the details. The reason I ask is if the SLN start doing scorched-earth attacks against neutrals, what is to prevent Manticore, or a third party, loading up a freighter or two with missiles, jumping to way outside detection range, then launching a heavy bombardment on a ballistic approach? Such a technique would only work on stationary targets but that includes all the infrastructure supporting the SU. True a minor player couldn't hit a major target, but revenge raids and accidental Eridani Edict violations seem plausible in light of a 'rogue' SLN, and post-Yawata universe.

It is very well known particularly as in Mission of Honor both Rajampet & Daud al Fanudahi referred to it; (Rajampet rather gloatingly). Also other characters in various novels, NOT part of the SEM have referred to it.

As for the second part that would be extremely contraindicated on the part of Manticore & the Grand Alliance. They want to be seen as the reasonable ones & acting like this would turn all non-aligned worlds against them.

Technodyne must have a sizable yard somewhere near Messa (near being relative when you add in hyperspace bridges etc)

Annachie wrote:Technodyne must have a sizable yard somewhere near Messa (near being relative when you add in hyperspace bridges etc)

Technodyne of Mesa (a subsidiary of Technodyne of Yildun) has, or rather had, a manufacturing facility at Mesa itself. In all likelihood it got blown up when Albrecht pressed the button. I believe it was one of the places where they were manufacturing Cataphracts. Or at least that's what the clues seem to say.

Thanks. Been a while since I've (re)read the series so I'm rusty on the specifics. Rajampet and Fanudahi aren't quite your typical non-aligned world (NAW) citizens though.

Agree the GA want to present themselves as the reasonable but aggrieved party but is the issue as serious as you make out? If the SLN targets NAWs then why would attacks by unidentified parties against SU worlds affect the GA's reputation amongst NAWs? So long as such attacks focus on infrastructure, and do their utmost to avoid deliberate Eridani violations, is there any significant difference between what the SLN is doing and said unidentified third parties?

Rincewind wrote:

Bewildered wrote:How widespread is knowledge of the Yawata Strike? Is it largely limited to Manticore, or is it universal knowledge? Sorry it's been a while since I read the HH series and I'm a little rusty on the details. The reason I ask is if the SLN start doing scorched-earth attacks against neutrals, what is to prevent Manticore, or a third party, loading up a freighter or two with missiles, jumping to way outside detection range, then launching a heavy bombardment on a ballistic approach? Such a technique would only work on stationary targets but that includes all the infrastructure supporting the SU. True a minor player couldn't hit a major target, but revenge raids and accidental Eridani Edict violations seem plausible in light of a 'rogue' SLN, and post-Yawata universe.

It is very well known particularly as in Mission of Honor both Rajampet & Daud al Fanudahi referred to it; (Rajampet rather gloatingly). Also other characters in various novels, NOT part of the SEM have referred to it.

As for the second part that would be extremely contraindicated on the part of Manticore & the Grand Alliance. They want to be seen as the reasonable ones & acting like this would turn all non-aligned worlds against them.

JohnRoth wrote:

Annachie wrote:Technodyne must have a sizable yard somewhere near Messa (near being relative when you add in hyperspace bridges etc)

Technodyne of Mesa (a subsidiary of Technodyne of Yildun) has, or rather had, a manufacturing facility at Mesa itself. In all likelihood it got blown up when Albrecht pressed the button. I believe it was one of the places where they were manufacturing Cataphracts. Or at least that's what the clues seem to say.

I previously posted about this in Re: The logistics of SLN commerce raiding.

There are no Technodyne manufacturing facilities on Mesa. Just a corporate headquarters. At least according to previously published text. However, RFC has recently said in these forums that Technodyne has (or at least did have prior to the arrival of Henke and Tourville at Mesa) a manufacturing facility on Mesa, so a retcon may be forthcoming (assuming the fact what he said in the forums is in the next Honorverse book and it doesn't get edited out).

SLN Admiral Filareta thinking to himself at Tasmania before leaving for Manticore:

A Rising Thunder, Chapter 9 wrote:That was the final element which had him considering the sort of “paranoid conspiracy theories” with which Burrows had so little patience. The order to prepare to receive a massive influx of reinforcements had arrived on April the eleventh, with instructions to sortie no later than the twenty-fifth. Obviously, the reinforcements he was to expect had already been put into motion, and although the timetable had been tight, he’d felt reasonably confident of making the ordered departure date. Except that two days later he’d received orders to await a convoy of ammunition ships loaded with the latest Technodyne ship-to-ship and system defense missile variants. As a follow-up dispatch had explained, it would delay the operation by no more than forty-eight hours, assuming the missile colliers experienced no delays of their own.
He’d been surprised Technodyne was supplying anything, given the legal firestorm still swirling around the huge arms manufacturer. But then he’d examined the new order a bit more closely and discovered that the “Technodyne” shipment had actually originated in the Mesa System.
Which was odd, since there was no Technodyne manufacturing facility in that star system.
Technodyne did have a corporate headquarters on Mesa, so it might have made sense for shipping orders to originate there, but there was no way the missiles themselves should be coming from that star system. Not if they’d actually been built by Technodyne, at least. Unless, perhaps, they were coming out of ammunition stockpiles already amassed by someone—someone other than the Solarian League Navy—in the aforesaid system.

Italics are the author's, boldface and underlined text is my emphasis.

I just hope the SLN decides that Grayson is one of those "lightly defended periphery systems" and tries to attack there.

Starsaber wrote:I just hope the SLN decides that Grayson is one of those "lightly defended periphery systems" and tries to attack there.

Not going to happen. After all, they've got the video of 2nd BoMa, courtesy of the RMN. Yes, they re-interpreted what was said and done by whom and why - but they got some infos they've to consider seriously, if they plan operations against Grayson. For example, that 150 Grayson ships of the wall were part of Honors fleet around Sphinx. Even if they take that number with a grain or two of salt, they've to assume that at least a quarter of it - call it 40 - actually belong to the GSN, and that Grayson has to have at least as much additional vessels at home. So, if the Grayson ships went home after the battle, the SLN could face 80, maybe up to 100 SDs, each of them as capable as its manticoran counterparts. After 2nd BoMa, that's a prospect neither Kolokoltsov and his cronies nor Kingsford and his staff will be ready to take on.

The textev shows that Filaretta believed that Technodyne had no manufacturing facilities on Mesa. But was he correct?

Bewildered wrote:Agree the GA want to present themselves as the reasonable but aggrieved party but is the issue as serious as you make out? If the SLN targets NAWs then why would attacks by unidentified parties against SU worlds affect the GA's reputation amongst NAWs? So long as such attacks focus on infrastructure, and do their utmost to avoid deliberate Eridani violations, is there any significant difference between what the SLN is doing and said unidentified third parties?

If Manticore is risking accidental EEE violations they aren't doing their utmost to avoid them. Manticore has all that super cool guidance tech remember? Also it won't be an unidentified party since only Manticore has the best missile tech which will sort of be a dead give away.

More to the point the one thing the GA does NOT want to do is set precedent for risky ultra-long range bombardment because Sollies are fully capable of doing exactly the same, except without Apollo they are way more likely to miss. They're using a brand new super buggy lame DDM. Or even worse they might "miss" and fry a few billion people. Also playing MAD chicken with non-rational actors, like the Mandarian clearly are, is a bad idea. Especially since they probably want a few billion dead Solly civilians.

Finally, the League seems likely to explode on its own. Manticore probably just has to protect worlds trying to leave and the League will die on its own.

That's my analysis at least.

That's my two cents.

quite possibly a cat wrote:

Bewildered wrote:Agree the GA want to present themselves as the reasonable but aggrieved party but is the issue as serious as you make out? If the SLN targets NAWs then why would attacks by unidentified parties against SU worlds affect the GA's reputation amongst NAWs? So long as such attacks focus on infrastructure, and do their utmost to avoid deliberate Eridani violations, is there any significant difference between what the SLN is doing and said unidentified third parties?

If Manticore is risking accidental EEE violations they aren't doing their utmost to avoid them. Manticore has all that super cool guidance tech remember? Also it won't be an unidentified party since only Manticore has the best missile tech which will sort of be a dead give away.

More to the point the one thing the GA does NOT want to do is set precedent for risky ultra-long range bombardment because Sollies are fully capable of doing exactly the same, except without Apollo they are way more likely to miss. They're using a brand new super buggy lame DDM. Or even worse they might "miss" and fry a few billion people. Also playing MAD chicken with non-rational actors, like the Mandarian clearly are, is a bad idea. Especially since they probably want a few billion dead Solly civilians.

Finally, the League seems likely to explode on its own. Manticore probably just has to protect worlds trying to leave and the League will die on its own.

That's my analysis at least.

That's my two cents.

Not quite sure I'm following this convo. So please don't flame me if I get it wrong.

SEM does not try to appear to be reasonable. They actually try to, because they find that just doung "the right thing" pays off for them in both the short term and the long term (Text ev SoV). Not sure what the operating parameters (ROE) are in BF "Operation Buccaneer" as opposed to FF Case Buccaneer. In the latter, yes it would be some pirate or pirates unknown preying on merchies, and maybe LACs. Like the renegade State sec ships SoS et al).

Not plausible to act that way under this operation. Coming into a system your ships are picked up by the security sensors and every military ship in orbit. That info is analyzed and ship types are IDed. So everyone in the loop knowa SLN BF units are approaching. Everyone knows who is blowing up everything in orbit. OTHERWISE the message gets lost that The Mandarins are not happy with your choice of trading partners. No point in sending a message if noone can figure out who the sender is.

Back to The Yawata Strike. IIRC (maybe not) The SL newsies were already in system covering the BoM when it happened. Messages were sent to Honor (MoH) in Haven and recall orders were included. It was also discussed by Dauod as ridiculous planning for Filareta's attack because as the official argument went "whoever shot the s*** out of Manty infrastructure had to have fought its way through all those godawful defenses to get there."