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Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3

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Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by runsforcelery   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:08 am

runsforcelery
First Space Lord

Posts: 1889
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:39 am
Location: South Carolina

“You and me both,” he agreed. “Please have me informed as soon as they come back aboard. In the meantime, I’m going to the flag briefing room. I want to go through this ammunition manifest. And I especially want to review ONI’s most recent estimate of Manty missile capabilities.”

He shook his head, his expression turning grimmer.

“I’ve only skimmed it so far, but I’m inclined to think it’s still . . . overoptimistic, let’s say.”

Timberlake raised an eyebrow at him. She, too, had skimmed the new estimate. There’d been no time to go through the analysis itself, but the conclusions section had been depressing. Intelligence’s current metric gave the Manties and their allies a three-to-one advantage in throw weight, a thirty percent advantage in penetration aids, and a maximum powered envelope of thirty million kilometers. That was more than enough to be going on with, in her opinion.

“I’m not saying Manties are ten meters tall, Gabby,” Capriotti said wryly. “And the new Cataphracts can match any range they’ve got . . . if we incorporate a ballistic phase. But you and I both know Lyang-tau is right on the money when he says we totally underestimated what the Manties could do to us. Shouldn’t have taken a genius — or so damned long — for ONI to realize that, either, which says some pretty unfortunate things about our prewar analysts. Since the shooting started, though, the Manties’ve made Lyang-tau’s point for him painfully enough not even our brilliant masters can miss it. I’m delighted they’ve sent us these new missiles, and I understand that Technodyne’s tweaked their performance again. But until I’ve got something just a little more solid than ‘our best guess’ about enemy capabilities from the same idiots who brought us Sandra Crandal and Eleventh Fleet, I’m not going to make any rash assumptions about miraculously level playing fields.”

“Works for me, Sir.” Timberlake shook her head. “Better we overestimate them than underestimate them!”

“Fortunately it sounds like someone back in Old Chicago’s figured that out, too.” Capriotti twitched his head at the dispatch they’d just finished viewing. “I can’t say I’m delighted at the notion of blowing up anyone’s star systems. That’s not what I joined the Navy to do, and I have friends living in Cachalot, for that mattter. But whoever came up with this idea, whether it was Admiral Bernard or Admiral Kingsford himself, I think it’s the best one available to us at the moment. If we can cause enough pain to their peripheral star systems or the independent star nations trading with them, they’ll have to disperse at least some of their forces to commerce and infrastructure protection. And the more we can keep them dispersed, the more likely we are to encourage a certain . . . circumspection on their part until Technodyne finally figures out how to build a genuine multidrive missile of our own.”

Timberlake nodded, although both of them understood the additional point Capriotti had chosen not to make. Operation Buccaneer wasn’t just about forcing the Manties and their allies to spread themselves thinner. In fact, that wasn’t even what it was primarily about. Its real purpose was to warn anyone who might even think about signing up with the Manties, whether as ally or simple trading partner, that the decision would be . . . unwise. That the SLN would consider that anyone who sided with Manticore had just sided against the Solarian League, and that the consequences would be dire enough to discourage anyone else from following her example.

In fact, it was a terror campaign, directed against those unable to defend themselves. And if anyone might have missed that little point, TF 783’s assigned target would make it abundantly clear.

The Cachalot System, 50.6 LY from Dzung and only 49.6 LY from Beowulf, was an independent system which had opted against joining the Solarian League when it was initially founded. It was also a prosperous, heavily populated system which had been a Beowulf trading partner for the better part of a thousand years . . . and depended on the Beowulf System Defense Force to provide its rapid response security force. Its organic “military forces” consisted of no more than a couple of dozen frigates and LACs, because no one would be insane enough to attack someone so closely associated with one of the League’s founding and most powerful star systems.

Until now, at least.

She wondered just how explicitly Kingsford or Brenner, the CO of Strategy and Planning, had admitted Buccaneer’s true objectives in the detailed operational orders. And, while she was wondering, she wondered how many of those independent and nominally independent star systems would recognize that the League was choosing to target them because it dared not attack the members of the “Grand Alliance” directly.

Bit of a potential downside, there, Gabby my girl, she reflected, then shrugged mentally. Maybe that’s another reason to pick Cachalot. It’s close enough to Beowulf that systems farther out in the Fringe may not realize how lightly defended it is. Even if they do, we’ve got to do something, though, and thank God no one is planning on sending us after one of the Manties’ primary star systems! Given how quick they smashed up Filareta . . . .

Her thought trailed off, and she nodded again, more firmly.

“I just hope Technodyne – or somebody — gets its thumb out and moves right along with that multidrive missile of yours, Sir!”



"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by ldwechsler   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:39 am

ldwechsler
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 280
Joined: Sun May 28, 2017 12:15 pm

runsforcelery wrote:“You and me both,” he agreed. “Please have me informed as soon as they come back aboard. In the meantime, I’m going to the flag briefing room. I want to go through this ammunition manifest. And I especially want to review ONI’s most recent estimate of Manty missile capabilities.”

He shook his head, his expression turning grimmer.

“I’ve only skimmed it so far, but I’m inclined to think it’s still . . . overoptimistic, let’s say.”

Timberlake raised an eyebrow at him. She, too, had skimmed the new estimate. There’d been no time to go through the analysis itself, but the conclusions section had been depressing. Intelligence’s current metric gave the Manties and their allies a three-to-one advantage in throw weight, a thirty percent advantage in penetration aids, and a maximum powered envelope of thirty million kilometers. That was more than enough to be going on with, in her opinion.

“I’m not saying Manties are ten meters tall, Gabby,” Capriotti said wryly. “And the new Cataphracts can match any range they’ve got . . . if we incorporate a ballistic phase. But you and I both know Lyang-tau is right on the money when he says we totally underestimated what the Manties could do to us. Shouldn’t have taken a genius — or so damned long — for ONI to realize that, either, which says some pretty unfortunate things about our prewar analysts. Since the shooting started, though, the Manties’ve made Lyang-tau’s point for him painfully enough not even our brilliant masters can miss it. I’m delighted they’ve sent us these new missiles, and I understand that Technodyne’s tweaked their performance again. But until I’ve got something just a little more solid than ‘our best guess’ about enemy capabilities from the same idiots who brought us Sandra Crandal and Eleventh Fleet, I’m not going to make any rash assumptions about miraculously level playing fields.”

“Works for me, Sir.” Timberlake shook her head. “Better we overestimate them than underestimate them!”

“Fortunately it sounds like someone back in Old Chicago’s figured that out, too.” Capriotti twitched his head at the dispatch they’d just finished viewing. “I can’t say I’m delighted at the notion of blowing up anyone’s star systems. That’s not what I joined the Navy to do, and I have friends living in Cachalot, for that mattter. But whoever came up with this idea, whether it was Admiral Bernard or Admiral Kingsford himself, I think it’s the best one available to us at the moment. If we can cause enough pain to their peripheral star systems or the independent star nations trading with them, they’ll have to disperse at least some of their forces to commerce and infrastructure protection. And the more we can keep them dispersed, the more likely we are to encourage a certain . . . circumspection on their part until Technodyne finally figures out how to build a genuine multidrive missile of our own.”

Timberlake nodded, although both of them understood the additional point Capriotti had chosen not to make. Operation Buccaneer wasn’t just about forcing the Manties and their allies to spread themselves thinner. In fact, that wasn’t even what it was primarily about. Its real purpose was to warn anyone who might even think about signing up with the Manties, whether as ally or simple trading partner, that the decision would be . . . unwise. That the SLN would consider that anyone who sided with Manticore had just sided against the Solarian League, and that the consequences would be dire enough to discourage anyone else from following her example.

In fact, it was a terror campaign, directed against those unable to defend themselves. And if anyone might have missed that little point, TF 783’s assigned target would make it abundantly clear.

The Cachalot System, 50.6 LY from Dzung and only 49.6 LY from Beowulf, was an independent system which had opted against joining the Solarian League when it was initially founded. It was also a prosperous, heavily populated system which had been a Beowulf trading partner for the better part of a thousand years . . . and depended on the Beowulf System Defense Force to provide its rapid response security force. Its organic “military forces” consisted of no more than a couple of dozen frigates and LACs, because no one would be insane enough to attack someone so closely associated with one of the League’s founding and most powerful star systems.

Until now, at least.

She wondered just how explicitly Kingsford or Brenner, the CO of Strategy and Planning, had admitted Buccaneer’s true objectives in the detailed operational orders. And, while she was wondering, she wondered how many of those independent and nominally independent star systems would recognize that the League was choosing to target them because it dared not attack the members of the “Grand Alliance” directly.

Bit of a potential downside, there, Gabby my girl, she reflected, then shrugged mentally. Maybe that’s another reason to pick Cachalot. It’s close enough to Beowulf that systems farther out in the Fringe may not realize how lightly defended it is. Even if they do, we’ve got to do something, though, and thank God no one is planning on sending us after one of the Manties’ primary star systems! Given how quick they smashed up Filareta . . . .

Her thought trailed off, and she nodded again, more firmly.

“I just hope Technodyne – or somebody — gets its thumb out and moves right along with that multidrive missile of yours, Sir!”




Clever plotting. Don't hit a well-defended system. Of course, it also turns the Sollies into a form of pirates. And it might bring a really nasty retribution.

I am reasonably certain that Beowulf knows where Technodyne does much of its work. Remember also that Technodyne is very hooked up with Mesa. An attack on their factories would be quite useful.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by BobG   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:15 am

BobG
Captain (Junior Grade)

Posts: 282
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:23 pm
Location: Westford, MA

ldwechsler wrote:Clever plotting. Don't hit a well-defended system. Of course, it also turns the Sollies into a form of pirates. And it might bring a really nasty retribution.

I am reasonably certain that Beowulf knows where Technodyne does much of its work. Remember also that Technodyne is very hooked up with Mesa. An attack on their factories would be quite useful.

Attack them? Rather, take out their defenses and haul their surviving factories back to Manticore. Even with tugs at a 1 G acceleration, they'd get to Manitore eventuality. And I'm sure the SD and missile production facilities could be tweaked into something to replace a part of what Oyster Bay destroyed.

-- BobG
SF & Fantasy: The only things better than Chocolate.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by cthia   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:30 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8204
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

I knew it! I knew that the SLN would be attacking close to Beowulf. I just had that feeling. And since the RMN and Beowulf has so much in common, this is a good candidate for my proposal elsewhere that the two will meet en passant.


BUT! I knew... knew... that something had to be amiss with the SLN's strategy of dispersing RMN forces. This snippet represents the other shoe dropping...

Here's the thing. The RHN used the same tactic of causing the RMN to spread their forces. But they had a method to their madness, as most navies do -- a real reason for doing this. Several reasons even.

1. It kept the Manties off-balanced and the initiative in Peep hands.

Doesn't work for the League. They're not heavy enough of a gorilla anymore, to knock the GA off-balance. So the same consequence of spreading the RMNs forces doesn't compute for the SLN.

2. If the RMNs forces are spread thin, then their systems would be weaker. Thus, facilitating an RHN attack at some weak point caused by the dispersal.

But tactics drawn from this effect doesn't necessarily transfer to the SLN. Sure, they can spread GA forces, but whatever is left at each node will still cause considerable damage and lives.

3. If the RMN are dispersing forces then, presumably, not enough hulls will be left available to scare up a posse to send on excursions or forays into Peep backyards -- like Eighth Fleet.

Doesn't transfer to the SLN. Spreading the RMNs forces as thin as they'd do their despised mother-in-law's ham wouldn't amount to a hill of beans as far as the SEM's ability to strike at League targets.

Therefore, this snippet in a nutshell is proof positive that I was correct in assuming that the SLN hadn't thought things through, which infers something was out of order. It seems I was incorrect on the former but correct on the latter. They had thought things through. Let's see how well it works out for them.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by Dauntless   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:41 am

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well this should be interesting. attacking beowulf could just about be justified, that whole invasion corridor thing but attacking an independent nation just because they are friends and trade with beowulf?

that is so going to come back and bite them
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:57 am

isaac_newton
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Location: Brighton, UK

runsforcelery wrote: SNIP



In fact, it was a terror campaign, directed against those unable to defend themselves. And if anyone might have missed that little point, TF 783’s assigned target would make it abundantly clear.

The Cachalot System, 50.6 LY from Dzung and only 49.6 LY from Beowulf, was an independent system which had opted against joining the Solarian League when it was initially founded. It was also a prosperous, heavily populated system which had been a Beowulf trading partner for the better part of a thousand years . . . and depended on the Beowulf System Defense Force to provide its rapid response security force. Its organic “military forces” consisted of no more than a couple of dozen frigates and LACs, because no one would be insane enough to attack someone so closely associated with one of the League’s founding and most powerful star systems.
SNIP



Oooooo - this is getting exciting.

On my first quick read I had gathered that Cachalot was one of those turning against the SL, but actually this seems to imply that it was never in the SL to start with!

So not even the fig leaf of putting down rebellion.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by cthia   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:16 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8204
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

This goes toward my rambling in lionheart's "preventing secession's" thread that the SLN will make examples of what happens to seceders or those no longer under the protection of OFS.

It further goes to motive that the SLN are indeed murderous, barbarous idiots. Gentlemen & Duckks of the jury, I give you...


Exhibit B.

isaac_newton wrote:
runsforcelery wrote: SNIP



In fact, it was a terror campaign, directed against those unable to defend themselves. And if anyone might have missed that little point, TF 783’s assigned target would make it abundantly clear.

The Cachalot System, 50.6 LY from Dzung and only 49.6 LY from Beowulf, was an independent system which had opted against joining the Solarian League when it was initially founded. It was also a prosperous, heavily populated system which had been a Beowulf trading partner for the better part of a thousand years . . . and depended on the Beowulf System Defense Force to provide its rapid response security force. Its organic “military forces” consisted of no more than a couple of dozen frigates and LACs, because no one would be insane enough to attack someone so closely associated with one of the League’s founding and most powerful star systems.
SNIP



Oooooo - this is getting exciting.

On my first quick read I had gathered that Cachalot was one of those turning against the SL, but actually this seems to imply that it was never in the SL to start with!

So not even the fig leaf of putting down rebellion.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by Theemile   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:12 am

Theemile
Admiral

Posts: 2750
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Location: Toledo, Ohio USA

You've gotta love this. This is a schoolyard bully realizing that he can no longer bully his favorite victim (who mysteriously grew 2 feet over the summer vacation and is now bullying him.) nor can he continue to bully his intended victim's friends (who also seems to have grown over summer break and can easily hold him down so Victim #1 can beat on him.)

For some reason, he has realized that the only way to terrorize his targets is to find one of the victim's asthmatic little brother in middle school, and pick on him, hoping that will send a message to everyone involved and put everything back in it's "proper place" with him as head bully.

yeah.... that is going to work great....
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just about as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by dscott8   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:29 am

dscott8
Captain of the List

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I would not be surprised if the Manties decide that the SLN's R&D facilities are a legit target, in order to maintain their tech edge. Look for Technodyne to get the scorched earth treatment.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, Snippet #3
Post by TangoLima   » Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:35 am

TangoLima
Commander

Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:54 pm

SLN planners " let's see how many of our own rules we
can break"
Is this also supposed to draw off and weaken the Beowulf
system defense forces ?
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