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Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1

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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:30 pm

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kzt wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:
The big difference here is that, as you point out, the wormhole does not go to Calvin because there's no way the Legislaturalists would have not immediately put a terminus just outside the Core into use. The wormhole either goes directly to Bolthole or another system near it.


It's kind of hard to move several hundred LY is a STL ship that is already worn out.

Was it the legisturists or the revolutionary government that found them?


Therein lies the tale. I suspect it's gonna be good.

The Legislaturists, at least according to the V1 snippets.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Sep 12, 2017 4:48 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:
Um, no. Calvin has moved. The obvious continuation is that they're going to reconstruct the ship somehow and continue on since the Calvin system is uninhabitable. Sanctuary/Refuge/Bolthole is somewhere farther on, possibly where the first set of snippets puts it.

The big difference here is that, as you point out, the wormhole does not go to Calvin because there's no way the Legislaturalists would have not immediately put a terminus just outside the Core into use. The wormhole either goes directly to Bolthole or another system near it.

They made it "just over 201 LY" in "four hundred and two years" at "fifty percent of light-speed" to get from Sol to KCR-126-04 (aka Calvin). [Not the 105 LY you originally said]

Their deceleration is such that they apparently slow down from 50% c in something over 1.5 years. That implies an average deceleration of about 0.35g - though I assume the rocket equation applies so it took them longer to build up to cruise than it takes them to stop. (Even with insane efficiency figure at least twice as long)

Though there's still a minor discrepancy in the numbers.
201 LY in 402 years at 50% c doesn't allow time for boost and counter boost after turnover; that should have added 4-5 years to that 402.
Still it's minor enough mismatch, maybe they were a hair faster than 0.5 c. (Or maybe RFC will tweak the time to just approximately 400 years)



Figuring out how much further they could make it requires some assumptions. Because I don't have data to calculate otherwise I'll assume that they can refuel back to what they had leaving Sol, that the 'hotel' load for 400 years was a negligible consumption of fuel, and so they wouldn't be able to boost to much, if any, higher cruise velocity (and still have the fuel to stop). Further I'll assume that the average speed is still exactly 50% c (despite the shorter flight).

If all that is true then with the remaining 75 years of operational life the most they can extend their range from Sol is another 43.1 LY (continue straight line outwards) for a max possibly of 244.1 LY away [75 years shiptime = 86.25 Earth time] (But we're still far short of the 395 LY of the problematic 1st draft)

If the updated novella keeps the terminus in the KCR-126-04 system then even 201 LY from Sol is too close to expect that Haven wouldn't have grabbed the economic benefits. (Manticore is IIRC out around 500 LY from Sol)


Not quite. They left in 135 PD, the snippet is 402 PD, giving 267 years for the voyage. On the other hand, Snippet 2 does say 201 ly, which isn't possible at 50% light speed for 267 years. There's another continuity glitch here somewhere. There's still lots of time for the copyeditors to catch it.

They basically have three options:

1. Suicide

2. Build a civilization in one of the asteroid belts.

3. Rebuild the ship.

Guess which one they're going to go after.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:08 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:They made it "just over 201 LY" in "four hundred and two years" at "fifty percent of light-speed" to get from Sol to KCR-126-04 (aka Calvin). [Not the 105 LY you originally said]

Not quite. They left in 135 PD, the snippet is 402 PD, giving 267 years for the voyage. On the other hand, Snippet 2 does say 201 ly, which isn't possible at 50% light speed for 267 years. There's another continuity glitch here somewhere.
There certainly is, because both the 201 LY and the 402 years were direct quotes out of the snippets (402 years transit time from the end of snippet 1 and 201 LY from the middle of snippet 2)


I'd missed the "402 Post Diaspora" in the header of each snippet. Since the elapsed time and distance match each other (give or take a few years worth of acceleration time) it seems David should adjust the 402 PD upwards by 135 years or so (can't remember if the first colony ship Prometheus was headed to Beowulf, or if not whether Beowulf's ship left that same year)

Though I guess you could claim, contrary to how everyone 'now' in the Honorverse uses 'Post Diaspora', that the Calvin used it to track their personal diaspora journey.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by cthia   » Wed Sep 13, 2017 10:44 am

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cthia wrote:
munroburton wrote:I wonder why Honor/Shannon thinks it might be necessary to upgrade defences against wormhole-based assaults. Ten thousand Chekhov's cannons, eh?

Because she thinks the answer to this would be a resounding yes, in their mind.


If the MA found out where Bolthole is and had plans to attack it, wouldn't it be smarter to leak the info to the League and let the League soften up their defenses before they foray into the mix of unweakened defenses, much as what the SLN thought they were doing to Manticore, post Oyster Bay?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by drothgery   » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:41 pm

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cthia wrote:If the MA found out where Bolthole is and had plans to attack it, wouldn't it be smarter to leak the info to the League and let the League soften up their defenses before they foray into the mix of unweakened defenses, much as what the SLN thought they were doing to Manticore, post Oyster Bay?

Not if the discovery was made any time "soon"; an attack by the entire SLN on Bolthole would still be easily defeated, and now the Grand Alliance would know the Alignment knows where Bolthole is (because they certainly don't believe the SLN has any secrets from the Alignment).
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:11 pm

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drothgery wrote:
cthia wrote:If the MA found out where Bolthole is and had plans to attack it, wouldn't it be smarter to leak the info to the League and let the League soften up their defenses before they foray into the mix of unweakened defenses, much as what the SLN thought they were doing to Manticore, post Oyster Bay?

Not if the discovery was made any time "soon"; an attack by the entire SLN on Bolthole would still be easily defeated, and now the Grand Alliance would know the Alignment knows where Bolthole is (because they certainly don't believe the SLN has any secrets from the Alignment).


Depends on how dirty they'll play it. The planets could still be bombarded.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Weird Harold   » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:40 pm

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drothgery wrote:Not if the discovery was made any time "soon"; an attack by the entire SLN on Bolthole would still be easily defeated, and now the Grand Alliance would know the Alignment knows where Bolthole is (because they certainly don't believe the SLN has any secrets from the Alignment).



The MAlign's spider drive ships are slow and have to drop out of hyper at a good distance to avoid detection. IIRC, the Yawata Strike took something like six months to develop, AFTER the ships were deployed in the Manticore system.

It would make far more sense to tip the SLN to Bolthole's location and let the SLN do whatever damage it can. If the SLN should happen to take over Bolthole, it could have the technology game-changer it needs.

Ain't going to happen, but the SLN needs some glimmer of hope. :twisted:
.
.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Sigs   » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:25 pm

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Weird Harold wrote:
drothgery wrote:Not if the discovery was made any time "soon"; an attack by the entire SLN on Bolthole would still be easily defeated, and now the Grand Alliance would know the Alignment knows where Bolthole is (because they certainly don't believe the SLN has any secrets from the Alignment).



The MAlign's spider drive ships are slow and have to drop out of hyper at a good distance to avoid detection. IIRC, the Yawata Strike took something like six months to develop, AFTER the ships were deployed in the Manticore system.

It would make far more sense to tip the SLN to Bolthole's location and let the SLN do whatever damage it can. If the SLN should happen to take over Bolthole, it could have the technology game-changer it needs.

Ain't going to happen, but the SLN needs some glimmer of hope. :twisted:


That is assuming that the RHN and the GA leave Bolthole virtually defenceless. By My calculations, there should be about 850-950 SD(P)s in GA service. There are 4 or 5 systems outside of Bolthole that might attract unwanted attention by the SLN if it were stupid enough to attack in force and they are likely protected very well. I would assume that Bolthole has at least 100 SD(P)'s and millions of pods plus plenty of LAC's and light warships.

The SLN has only so many capital ships and they lost nearly 500 of them. Approximately 300 are in yard hands that leaves 1,500 SDs in service. They will need those ships to "protect" reluctant League systems. Bolthole's best security is that no-one knows it exists or if they do know no one knows where it is. But I doubt that it is left undefended especially if it is one of the largest shipyards in the Alliance and has the combined Research assets of the GA.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Sigs   » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:28 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
drothgery wrote:Not if the discovery was made any time "soon"; an attack by the entire SLN on Bolthole would still be easily defeated, and now the Grand Alliance would know the Alignment knows where Bolthole is (because they certainly don't believe the SLN has any secrets from the Alignment).


Depends on how dirty they'll play it. The planets could still be bombarded.

Also depends on how much of the infrastructure is on the planet. If you virtually destroy the planet and kill a bunch of people but don't destroy the shipyards or research facilities they will likely just piss off the alliance that much more.
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Re: Uncompromising Honor, snippet #1
Post by Rincewind   » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:20 pm

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cthia wrote:
==========================================
SPECIAL COMMUNIQUE FROM THE ADMIRALTY
==========================================


Alright. This is the time to check the gut and fess up. I became very aware of all of you die hard captured Solly junk fans and I studied and tracked your behavior across many threads and I know, I KNOW, that many of you are fanatic in your love for all things captured. Which leads me to the meaning of this emergency communique. I know that there are many of you still holding on and holding out. You simply can't let go of those captured Solly ships, those floating, hulking, mindless, spiritless pieces of junk. Therefore, I hardly believe that all of you have given up every single ghost. SO! I'll give you exactly 24 hours! That should afford you plenty moments of silence to reflect and forget. Then, remove the — stolen is such a strong word — misappropriated captured Solly ships from under your beds, closets, basements and from under your very special hand-sewn fluffy pink pillows and send them to the breakers, now! BECAUSE GODDAMMIT!...

IF ANOTHER SOB COMES IN HERE WITH SOME LAME ASS IDEA ABOUT HOW TO USE A SOLLY SD I'M GONNA BEND HIM OVER PULL DOWN HIS LITTLE PINK PANTIES TAKE ME ONE OF THOSE WORTHLESS PIECES OF JUNK AND GREASE HER UP REAL GOOD WITH SOME WD-40 STAND HER UP ON END AND SHOVE IT UP HIS CANDY ASS!"


Admiralty out!


Do you have nightmares? Do you waken in a cold sweat? Do you have to constantly check under the bed to see that there are no contributors with fresh ideas on what to do with SLN SDs lurking there? Have they become the bane of your existence, your bête noir your...? You catch my drift. In that case I have one suggestion for what to do with them:
Dig a series of giant holes, bury them with a stake through their metaphorical heart & sprinkle their graves with holy water to make sure they don't come back from the dead.

P.S. I still think my idea for using them to play Interplanetary darts was a good idea, though.
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