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Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"

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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Relax   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:10 am

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My bet? Since the battle scenario was SOOOOO brief, RFC came hard up against reality when he gamed it out. So instead of trying to explain, and making it hard to read, he completely cut it out of the book and hoped no one would notice, that the logical justification why there were ANY SLN SD's left over was magically not present.

Logically, there shouldn't have been a single SLN SD other than those SD's who Surrendered on their own. Certainly shouldn't have been ~80 of them as EVERY SLN SD was shooting salvos of missiles from their normal tubes all on their own. After all the SLN chain of command was completely destroyed. The logistical time required to regain command, see a hopeless situation(wont happen until your ships are good and blown up as none of them have been in battle or even realistic battle training), give the surrender command, everyone kills the wedge, and then the RMN/RHN have to see the killed surrender and finally send kill commands to their missiles which are all down range one to two light minutes.

The real question is, WHY did RFC see the need to have any SLN SD's....
_________
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Relax
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Montrose Toast   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:28 pm

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He left the SLN SDs so that we could beat a dead horse for years about using them in some fashion.

RFC has a devious sense of humor...
"Who Dares Wins"
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by pappilon   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:05 pm

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Montrose Toast wrote:He left the SLN SDs so that we could beat a dead horse for years about using them in some fashion.

RFC has a devious sense of humor...


ROFLMAO. I know, Manticore can sell them to some non-aligned world victim of Operation Buccaneer to pull a Black Flag attack on some Solly Base. :lol: :roll:

[Ouch. Ouch, Quit ... Stop already I was just kidding. ... OWW]
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by kenl511   » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:18 pm

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pappilon wrote:
Montrose Toast wrote:He left the SLN SDs so that we could beat a dead horse for years about using them in some fashion.

RFC has a devious sense of humor...


ROFLMAO. I know, Manticore can sell them to some non-aligned world victim of Operation Buccaneer to pull a Black Flag attack on some Solly Base. :lol: :roll:

[Ouch. Ouch, Quit ... Stop already I was just kidding. ... OWW]


The Grand fleet has more than enough SLN BCs for that black flag operation.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:01 am

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n7axw wrote:It's just that I think that the SLN should be getting their tactical info the hard way rather than the RMN assisting their Intel with blow by blow accounts.

As for PR, having entire fleets blown out of space should make the point without the blow by blow. That certainly isn't how the wars with Haven were fought. All the tactical recordings do is provide grist for the Solly propaganda mill to distort.

Don

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Sending the recordings makes it clear that engaging a GA fleet is simply suicide. The SLN seems to have understood that--they're trying to come up with strategies that won't cause a fleet engagement. This means the GA won't have to kill as many people--a good thing in their eyes.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:05 am

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runsforcelery wrote:And indicating to the SLN's personnel just how much they want to avoid finding themselves the target of a GA podnought (and all of the morale and aggressive implications that carries with it) has to be considered a Good Thing from the GA's perspective. They want any SL officer they face to already be defeated inside his own head before the first shot is fired. . . and actually seeing what happened to Filaretta ought to go quite a ways in that direction, don't you think? :twisted:


Actually, what they want is for the SLN to realize how hopeless it is and surrender when the GA can range on them and demands their surrender.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:17 am

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BobG wrote:This brings up a question I've been wondering about for the Battle of Manticore 2. Why were there any SLN survivors, let alone 80 or so undamanged ones? I had assumed that the Sollies would fire more than one salvo of missiles, the ones after the first from their tubes, and that the GA would respond in kind.

If that were true, the first wave of Mantie missiles would have probably destroyed or disabled every one it targetted, and the Havenite missiles would have done the same. Target co-ordination between the two forces would have been "challenging", given their recent alliance.

So what actually happened, as far as BoM 2 occurred? There was clearly enough time for all sides to fire multiple salvos. If the GA had fired multiple salvos, and not aborted the later ones, then there shouldn't have been any SLN forces that weren't destroyed.

Confused.
-- Bob G


At this point the GA has a pretty good idea of how well it's missiles are going to perform and they had a lot of missile defense. They're also limited in their ammo supply. I don't think they would have fired an additional salvo until they saw if their first one was enough to make the survivors surrender.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by n7axw   » Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:46 pm

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Loren Pechtel wrote:
BobG wrote:This brings up a question I've been wondering about for the Battle of Manticore 2. Why were there any SLN survivors, let alone 80 or so undamanged ones? I had assumed that the Sollies would fire more than one salvo of missiles, the ones after the first from their tubes, and that the GA would respond in kind.

If that were true, the first wave of Mantie missiles would have probably destroyed or disabled every one it targetted, and the Havenite missiles would have done the same. Target co-ordination between the two forces would have been "challenging", given their recent alliance.

So what actually happened, as far as BoM 2 occurred? There was clearly enough time for all sides to fire multiple salvos. If the GA had fired multiple salvos, and not aborted the later ones, then there shouldn't have been any SLN forces that weren't destroyed.

Confused.
-- Bob G


At this point the GA has a pretty good idea of how well it's missiles are going to perform and they had a lot of missile defense. They're also limited in their ammo supply. I don't think they would have fired an additional salvo until they saw if their first one was enough to make the survivors surrender.


SLN missile defense is still not designed to cope with the missile threat environment prevalent in the Haven sector. By that standard, they don't have "a lot of missile defense." In fact that is probably their biggest disadvantage right now.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by pappilon   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:10 am

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Loren Pechtel wrote:At this point the GA has a pretty good idea of how well it's missiles are going to perform and they had a lot of missile defense. They're also limited in their ammo supply. I don't think they would have fired an additional salvo until they saw if their first one was enough to make the survivors surrender.


Would be true if they were actually firing SEM missiles. IIRC some Havenite said "our missiles may not be as good as yours, but they should be good enough against Sollies. Besides we have plenty and our production lines are undamaged."

n7axw wrote:SLN missile defense is still not designed to cope with the missile threat environment prevalent in the Haven sector. By that standard, they don't have "a lot of missile defense." In fact that is probably their biggest disadvantage right now.

Don

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From Basic Military doctrine, to battle doctrine, to absence of battle experience, to missile offense, to missile defense, to logistics ... You are brave to pick one as their greatest disadvantage right now. Quite possibly correct ... but brave.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by n7axw   » Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:12 pm

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pappilon wrote:
Loren Pechtel wrote:At this point the GA has a pretty good idea of how well it's missiles are going to perform and they had a lot of missile defense. They're also limited in their ammo supply. I don't think they would have fired an additional salvo until they saw if their first one was enough to make the survivors surrender.


Would be true if they were actually firing SEM missiles. IIRC some Havenite said "our missiles may not be as good as yours, but they should be good enough against Sollies. Besides we have plenty and our production lines are undamaged."

n7axw wrote:SLN missile defense is still not designed to cope with the missile threat environment prevalent in the Haven sector. By that standard, they don't have "a lot of missile defense." In fact that is probably their biggest disadvantage right now.

Don

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From Basic Military doctrine, to battle doctrine, to absence of battle experience, to missile offense, to missile defense, to logistics ... You are brave to pick one as their greatest disadvantage right now. Quite possibly correct ... but brave.



You did note that weasel word "probably," didn't you? That was my "bolthole!" :lol:

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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