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Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"

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Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Maldorian   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:02 pm

Maldorian
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Like the topic said, what can the sollies get from their weapon industry?

We know what equipment the Battle fleet and frontier fleet has, but that don´t says, that there is someone who has better stuff. Not so good like the manties or haven, but closer to them.

Why are all the small navy´s are existing in the league? Do the goverment´s really need them? Or is it like today, that the goverment and the weapon industry are really close with each other, means, the small navy´s are only existing to keep the local weapon industry alive.

Maybe the officers of battle and frontier fleet have ignored the manty/haven war, but does it count for the smaller navy´s and the weapon manufactors who equipped them?

Somewhere is written, that there were observers of foreign navy´s have watched the war.

If some of them saw the progress of the manty weapon tec they maybe send a message home, that research for better tec is needed.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by kzt   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:20 pm

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They could deploy ever deadly but fragile systems within a year.

But because David has LACS hauling around the entire pod core of SD(P)s at 700G and invisibly it doesn't matter. David's war porn kick means it will all be meaninglessness slaughter.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:21 pm

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Maldorian wrote:Like the topic said, what can the sollies get from their weapon industry?

We know what equipment the Battle fleet and frontier fleet has, but that don´t says, that there is someone who has better stuff. Not so good like the manties or haven, but closer to them.

Why are all the small navy´s are existing in the league? Do the goverment´s really need them? Or is it like today, that the goverment and the weapon industry are really close with each other, means, the small navy´s are only existing to keep the local weapon industry alive.

Maybe the officers of battle and frontier fleet have ignored the manty/haven war, but does it count for the smaller navy´s and the weapon manufactors who equipped them?

Somewhere is written, that there were observers of foreign navy´s have watched the war.

If some of them saw the progress of the manty weapon tec they maybe send a message home, that research for better tec is needed.

Some of their core missile drive tech seems to be better than Manticores - implying that if they ever got or rediscovered the trick of the 'baffle' that makes practical true MDM's possible that their missiles would be a bit faster and longer ranged than Manticores.

But we've seen so little of their underlying tech base, and nothing of the various SDFs that sent observers, that it's very hard to have any idea what their short or medium term military tech potential is.

Far better than what they have now; heck we've seen several times that their hardware is better than the software currently driving it. So some pretty quick improvements are possible.
But big enough and quick enough to achieve a stalemate with the Grand Alliance? That seems implausible unless things to badly wrong for Manticore and friends.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by pnakasone   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:48 pm

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The biggest worry that GA has is the SL getting its act together and stall for the time needed to close the tech gap.
Short term not much SLN will be able to close the tech gap.

Long term the SLN would be able easily close the tech gap and out prouduce the GA in ships.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by ldwechsler   » Sun Aug 27, 2017 7:57 pm

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pnakasone wrote:The biggest worry that GA has is the SL getting its act together and stall for the time needed to close the tech gap.
Short term not much SLN will be able to close the tech gap.

Long term the SLN would be able easily close the tech gap and out prouduce the GA in ships.



That might not actually be true. Short term, of course, this is correct. The Sollie ships are generations behind. Generations means something. It does not mean the different between the F44Fs and P-51s; it means the shift to jets.

In electronics it's a huge way off. And that can be vital. What shattered the USSR was its attempt to develop anti-missile systems like the US was doing. Their most effective tool was using our media to decry the program, calling it "Star Wars."

However, it was functioning, if not wonderfully well, fifteen years later and really well 30 yeas later. But the Soviets could not build the key electronics needed. And they couldn't match things even with espionage.

The GA is a few generations ahead. They were probably better than the Sollies at the start of the whole series. And they've gone through a whole series of things like Ghostrider, Moriarty, and Apollo. These things take time to develop.

And while all of this is happening, the GA will be developing things further.

And they could rather easily target a lot of the key places where research and manufacturing of key components is done. The League is very corrupt and manufacturing seems to be done in space.

Further, the League will be falling apart. And their finances come from interstellar trade which will not be in good shape after the war. And which they won't collect from planets no longer in the League. And they'll almost be starting from scratch. Kingsford suggested using cruisers as raiders because they won't be able to go against navy ships.

If the League held together, they might really improve. But it's not.
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:02 am

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ldwechsler wrote:
In electronics it's a huge way off. And that can be vital. What shattered the USSR was its attempt to develop anti-missile systems like the US was doing. Their most effective tool was using our media to decry the program, calling it "Star Wars."

.


Nonsence.

1st: the USSR have working anti-missile systems around Moscow since 1976 - basically the equivalent of "Safeguard"/"Sentinel" array.

2nd: The most effective USSR tool was the laser battlestation "Skif", designed to counter space-based components of SDI. The launch of "Poluys" prototype (without working laser) was attempted in 1980s, but the faliure of "Energya" rocket third stage led station to literally go ballistic. Still, it was long enough on orbit to sucsessfully complete 80% of planned tests.
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Theemile   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:15 am

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Dilandu wrote:
ldwechsler wrote:
In electronics it's a huge way off. And that can be vital. What shattered the USSR was its attempt to develop anti-missile systems like the US was doing. Their most effective tool was using our media to decry the program, calling it "Star Wars."

.


Nonsence.

1st: the USSR have working anti-missile systems around Moscow since 1976 - basically the equivalent of "Safeguard"/"Sentinel" array.

2nd: The most effective USSR tool was the laser battlestation "Skif", designed to counter space-based components of SDI. The launch of "Poluys" prototype (without working laser) was attempted in 1980s, but the faliure of "Energya" rocket third stage led station to literally go ballistic. Still, it was long enough on orbit to sucsessfully complete 80% of planned tests.


Details I have say that Poluys has a working 1 MW prototype. It would have been a game changer.

Still, the overall fact is that to build and update all the military systems to counter the systems the US claimed to be working on in the late 80's, the USSR bankrupted itself.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just about as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by George J. Smith   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:31 am

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Theemile wrote:Snip

Still, the overall fact is that to build and update all the military systems to counter the systems the US claimed to be working on in the late 80's, the USSR bankrupted itself.


Maybe that was the whole point, it was disinformation to bankrupt the USSR.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Theemile   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:17 am

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George J. Smith wrote:
Theemile wrote:Snip

Still, the overall fact is that to build and update all the military systems to counter the systems the US claimed to be working on in the late 80's, the USSR bankrupted itself.


Maybe that was the whole point, it was disinformation to bankrupt the USSR.


Which is why I worded it the way I did.

The US did start and fund many programs in the 80s (5th gen fighter, stealth fighter, stealth bomber, stealth ships, GPS missile upgrades, star wars, space shuttle (70's, but the USSR didn't start their version until the 80's, advanced submarines) that did move to actual hardware, but they simultaneously created many side programs that were "slightly" funded, but publically acknowledged, just to keep the opposition busy. And it did help bankrupt the USSR - at the cost of massive deficit spending in the US.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just about as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"
Post by Dilandu   » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:59 pm

Dilandu
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Theemile wrote:Still, the overall fact is that to build and update all the military systems to counter the systems the US claimed to be working on in the late 80's, the USSR bankrupted itself.


So the problem wasn't so much of technology (while I agree, that USSR was behind in therms of electronic - largely because of moronic decision to just copy IBM computers in 1970, instead of developing further our own lines of computers), but the economy. And, of course, the absurd situation where the Soviet military have no actual ability to decide, what weapon they want to have...

It is near-always missed in all talks about the USS military, but thing is, that Soviet military was continious victim of different industrial lobbies in Politbureau. Each major military factory - like "Kirovsky Zavod" or "Kharkovsky Zavod" - have their own ambitions and connections in Politbureau. There were constant struggle between factories, to put exactly their design of tank, plane, missile into production. And when Politbureau decided that something must be adopted by military, the military could only curse and obey. They have very little influence about adopting new weaponry (of course, if there are no obvious deficiences...)

So, that's why the USSR in 1980s stuck with THREE DIFFERENT MODELS OF MAIN BATTLE TANK - T-64, T-72, and T-80 (not counting sub-models). They were designed and produced by three different tank factories, which have great influence in Politbureau, and all three sucsessfully persuaded Politbureau to adopt their tanks for mass production. The logistic effect you could easily imagine...
------------------------
If power's on your shopping list
Then use the elbow and the fist,
Pummel 'em until they get the gist
Just make an example of
Representative sample of
And most of them will not be missed! (c)
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