Solarian warships/tech : "What is possible!"

I wonder if someone think of manticorian tec in adifferent way.

The manties use missle pods with their podlayers. What is, if the league dcide to use pods with engines and a cloaking device? You drive the whole pod into missle range and start the missles. such a pod should have a bigger range than manty missles, with lower speed, but if you keep distance to an enemy fleet it could work.

And we shouldn´t forget, that the league has armed sensor probes. If you use them in great numbers it could also a danger to the allince.

Maldorian wrote:I wonder if someone think of manticorian tec in adifferent way.

The manties use missle pods with their podlayers. What is, if the league dcide to use pods with engines and a cloaking device? You drive the whole pod into missle range and start the missles. such a pod should have a bigger range than manty missles, with lower speed, but if you keep distance to an enemy fleet it could work.

And we shouldn´t forget, that the league has armed sensor probes. If you use them in great numbers it could also a danger to the allince.

Sounds like the Klingon Bird of Prey.

"Keptin, we have pods decloaking off our starboard bow!"

Maldorian wrote:And we shouldn´t forget, that the league has armed sensor probes. If you use them in great numbers it could also a danger to the alliance.

The "armed RD" used for 'Operation Hassan' was rejected by the League -- by the SLN to be precise. It may have inspired the "Mistletoe" armed RDs of the RMN used against Moriarty, but even that is NOT an anti-ship weapon.

As for self-powered missile pods, RFC has rejected that idea several times.

I was always waiting for the sleeping research giant to derive a tech that counters Apollo—that at least greatly diminishes her effectiveness. Akin to the attempt made by the Havenites with Shannon's rushed, impromptu and quite desperate Tripple Ripple.

Then it wouldn't matter how long-legged the Manty missiles are if they are rendered ineffective at some point before the final attack run.

IOW, something that also scrambles the fiendish Manty ECM.

The SLN needs to find a way to get inside the boxer's longer reach. And then if they can increase the effectiveness of their own missiles...

Heck, the Sol system has had a much longer history and experience with ECM. It was first developed there.

cthia wrote:I was always waiting for the sleeping research giant to derive a tech that counters Apollo—that at least greatly diminishes her effectiveness. Akin to the attempt made by the Havenites with Shannon's rushed, impromptu and quite desperate Tripple Ripple.

???

The "triple ripple" was hardly rushed, impromptu, or desperate; it was the product of years of Havenite tactical analysis and designed to counter the weapons and tactics used by 8th Fleet in Buttercup. Its existence was a key part of why Theisman thought Thunderbolt would work.

Moriarty was rushed, and designed to counter pre-Apollo, but post-Buttercup RMN tech.

Haven never tried to put any tech or tactics to counter Apollo into place; Beatrice (the only Havenite attack on Manticore made after they knew about Apollo) was designed to defeat the RMN before they had sufficient volumes of Apollo pods and Apollo-capable fire control platforms available.

drothgery wrote:Haven never tried to put any tech or tactics to counter Apollo into place; Beatrice (the only Havenite attack on Manticore made after they knew about Apollo) was designed to defeat the RMN before they had sufficient volumes of Apollo pods and Apollo-capable fire control platforms available.

I agree on the tech. But Chin's delayed pincer against the forces coming in from Trevor's Star was a tactic specifically designed to handle 8th fleet an it (suspected to be fairly limited numbers of) Apollo capable hulls. (Mind you it relied on the unique 'terrain' of the Junction so it was hardly a generally applicable tactic - but it was a tactic)

By catching 8th Fleet between two enormous Havenite fleets of SD(P)s, both well within MDM range, Theisman hopped to be able to mob and bludgeon the Apollo armed ships. Only the fact that 8th fleet was well away from the terminus, conducting practice maneuvers, kept it from being in that same trap with 3rd fleet.


OTOH given how effective McKeon's handful of Apollo SD(P)s were, and the vast increase in defensive firepower Keyhole (I or II) provided, I think Haven might have significantly underestimated the buzzsaw all of the 8th fleet would have been if caught between 2 fleets. 8th might have been badly battered, or possibly even totally destroyed, but neither Havenite fleet would be at all happy about it (IMHO)

drothgery wrote:The "triple ripple" was hardly rushed, impromptu, or desperate; it was the product of years of Havenite tactical analysis and designed to counter the weapons and tactics used by 8th Fleet in Buttercup. Its existence was a key part of why Theisman thought Thunderbolt would work.

Well, it worked because it is so written. Missile seekers are gravitic and nuke don't do anything to them. You'll notice that nobody does point defenses that involves throwing out volleys of honking huge warheads to burn out the seekers of missiles in terminal attack phase. Why is that?

drothgery wrote:

cthia wrote:I was always waiting for the sleeping research giant to derive a tech that counters Apollo—that at least greatly diminishes her effectiveness. Akin to the attempt made by the Havenites with Shannon's rushed, impromptu and quite desperate Tripple Ripple.

???

The "triple ripple" was hardly rushed, impromptu, or desperate; it was the product of years of Havenite tactical analysis and designed to counter the weapons and tactics used by 8th Fleet in Buttercup. Its existence was a key part of why Theisman thought Thunderbolt would work.

Moriarty was rushed, and designed to counter pre-Apollo, but post-Buttercup RMN tech.

Haven never tried to put any tech or tactics to counter Apollo into place; Beatrice (the only Havenite attack on Manticore made after they knew about Apollo) was designed to defeat the RMN before they had sufficient volumes of Apollo pods and Apollo-capable fire control platforms available.

I could have sworn I recalled textev to that effect. I'll have to reread, for my own peace of mind. My bad.

Still, here on earth their is a tech war of one-upmanship against ECM and the U.S. seems to be able to stay ahead of it. It simply seems natural that the League would counter the RMN's fiendishly effective ECM once they pulled their heads out of their asses.

cthia wrote:I was always waiting for the sleeping research giant to derive a tech that counters Apollo—that at least greatly diminishes her effectiveness. Akin to the attempt made by the Havenites with Shannon's rushed, impromptu and quite desperate Tripple Ripple.

Then it wouldn't matter how long-legged the Manty missiles are if they are rendered ineffective at some point before the final attack run.

IOW, something that also scrambles the fiendish Manty ECM.

The SLN needs to find a way to get inside the boxer's longer reach. And then if they can increase the effectiveness of their own missiles...

Heck, the Sol system has had a much longer history and experience with ECM. It was first developed there.

Sleeping giant implies a lot more than we have seen.The US was a sleeping giant before WWII. We let the Japanese and Germans and even allies develop a lot of things we did not.

But we had the tech ready to go when it was necessary.

The Sollies don't have this. Just because they've been around longer doesn't mean their science is better. If that were the case, they would always win.

They don't look like they've made a lot of progress for centuries. Note that even though Haven had Foraker they never caught up with Manticore although they were far larger.

From what we've seen in the opening snippet to the new book, the Manties are going through all the latest Sollie tech and pushing THOSE designs further.

There are a whole lot of different tech areas needed to develop before they'll make a huge difference to the Sollie navy. They need to develop FTL and to miniaturize it. They need to work out how to extend the range of missiles. They need to develop the control tech to handle the large number of missiles. They need to develop fission tech to get the advantages of the LACs. And that puts them only about one or two generations behind the Grand Alliance.

Haven crippled their education and R&D prior to their short little war with the annoying 3 planet system.