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GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions

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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by PeterZ   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:38 pm

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Isn't that what OTC is for? I am sure that the RMN can run OTC which focusses on foreign naval personnel.

robert132 wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:

I see three ways that foreign applicant might be accepted
1) No preferential treatment at all you have to make the cutoff, if there's a five thousand students in the incoming class you have to be in the top five thousand applicants.

2) Somewhat relaxed entrance requirements combined with mandatory additional tutoring once accepted.

3) Special prep schools to spend a year or two doing that additional tutoring before applying.

But again, however they did it they were taking kids from allied systems and putting them through the Naval Academy; and Alizon and Zanzibar don't seem any better off than several of the worlds in Silesia and Talbott.
I'd be surprised if they don't find a way to find and accept reasonable numbers of candidates from Manticore's new Imperial systems.


There is possibly a 4th way, seats in a given class being held open at the request of the Foreign Office for "X" number of top Midshipmen who already have some training from their home system Naval Academy, perhaps having finished Academy Prep School and 1 to 2 years or more and are assigned to finish their training at Sag Island as EXCHANGE students, a similar number of RMN Middies finishing their training at Alizon, Grayson, Zanzibar or wherever.

In this way they already have a grounding in the basics, are top performers AND have the ties most governments would require to their home system service and now top it off with experience working with the Navies of allied powers.
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by kzt   » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:57 pm

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The US military offers seats in major courses to allies. We had a Colombian captain and a Panimanian LT in my field artillery OBC.

There is a drive by military organization to not screw up in public. For example I'm told that for a US Marine who fails Ranger school, which is what happens to 63% of total attendees, has ended his career. USMC personnel who get allocated the very few slots are very carefully selected by the USMC and are extremely motivated.

I suspect that the people who would get sent to a RMN academy by an outside military are going to be O2 or O3s selected as showing enormous promise, not random high school graduates.
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by cthia   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:31 am

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robert132 wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:

I see three ways that foreign applicant might be accepted
1) No preferential treatment at all you have to make the cutoff, if there's a five thousand students in the incoming class you have to be in the top five thousand applicants.

2) Somewhat relaxed entrance requirements combined with mandatory additional tutoring once accepted.

3) Special prep schools to spend a year or two doing that additional tutoring before applying.

But again, however they did it they were taking kids from allied systems and putting them through the Naval Academy; and Alizon and Zanzibar don't seem any better off than several of the worlds in Silesia and Talbott.
I'd be surprised if they don't find a way to find and accept reasonable numbers of candidates from Manticore's new Imperial systems.


There is possibly a 4th way, seats in a given class being held open at the request of the Foreign Office for "X" number of top Midshipmen who already have some training from their home system Naval Academy, perhaps having finished Academy Prep School and 1 to 2 years or more and are assigned to finish their training at Sag Island as EXCHANGE students, a similar number of RMN Middies finishing their training at Alizon, Grayson, Zanzibar or wherever.

In this way they already have a grounding in the basics, are top performers AND have the ties most governments would require to their home system service and now top it off with experience working with the Navies of allied powers.

Absolutely robert. In fact, I think you can change that possible to a probable. It is what I was alluding to upstream. Candidates who have already shown proficiency and conquered the learning curve, from another accredited program whose credits will transfer. Nice thought.

The idea of exchange students is amusing and I'm sure a reality. Though I am not so sure about a strategy of sending Sag Isle's middies—leaving the premiere naval academy in the galaxy—to study "abroad."

Normally when you are a foreign exchange student you do so because there is something to gain from the experience that you cannot achieve natively. In the case of american students studying abroad, the advantages are clear. They get to see the wonders of the world, the beauty of other countries, experience their culture and are exposed to its language(s) firsthand.

I don't see the benefits of a Sag Isle middie leaving, or wanting to leave, Sag Isle to finish up anywhere else. The Andermani (withstanding) for that awful German language if the opportunity so presents itself.

Though I could be wrong. Grayson is said to be a very beautiful planet -- just deadly.

Also, keep in mind that many people erroneously take "exchange" at face value. Countries accepting exchange students are in no way indebted to send their own.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by robert132   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:13 pm

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cthia wrote:Absolutely robert. In fact, I think you can change that possible to a probable. It is what I was alluding to upstream. Candidates who have already shown proficiency and conquered the learning curve, from another accredited program whose credits will transfer. Nice thought.

The idea of exchange students is amusing and I'm sure a reality. Though I am not so sure about a strategy of sending Sag Isle's middies—leaving the premiere naval academy in the galaxy—to study "abroad."

Normally when you are a foreign exchange student you do so because there is something to gain from the experience that you cannot achieve natively. In the case of american students studying abroad, the advantages are clear. They get to see the wonders of the world, the beauty of other countries, experience their culture and are exposed to its language(s) firsthand.

I don't see the benefits of a Sag Isle middie leaving, or wanting to leave, Sag Isle to finish up anywhere else. The Andermani (withstanding) for that awful German language if the opportunity so presents itself.

Though I could be wrong. Grayson is said to be a very beautiful planet -- just deadly.

Also, keep in mind that many people erroneously take "exchange" at face value. Countries accepting exchange students are in no way indebted to send their own.


The main reason I brought it forward is that I've seen Naval Academy Midshipmen on their "summer cruises" who obviously were foreign national - language usage, mannerisms and so forth and introduced as such. I never had one work in my particular area (ship's intelligence center (NOT to be confused with CIC)) but can vouch for the fact.

The last one was actually a fairly pleasant 30 day summer cruise to the Caribbean as the assault ship I served in also hosted NROTC middies from some Midwestern university. Some of those Sophomore ladies filled out their dungarees nicely. :D The weekend "steel beach" on the flight deck was ... er ... entertaining. :shock: :lol:

I STILL haven't shown my wife any of the photos taken that afternoon (not by me, SFW photos in the cruise book.) The NSFW ones are safely locked away where they can't kill me. ;) Not even "girlie mag" NSFW but somehow no one remembered to tell the ladies that 2 piece suits are not suitable on a warship.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:34 pm

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Hi PeterZ,

I suspect part of the mission planning would be to minimize collateral damage, and options such as approaching the anchorage from the angle of the nearest inhabited planet, so impacts would be away from it or any other inhabited planet or space habitat that might be affected.

Of course this is all speculation, but it all might be moot if the radius of the RD's wedge is more than 700 meters from the RD, since that's wider than any SD, so there will be no debris! ;) 8-) :lol:

I had previously imagined that some of the debris might be somehow salvaged and the rest tracked falling into the sun, covered by the local newsies, but leaving absolutely nothing behind [other RD's may be needed as wing men to ensure that] is an even more powerful impressive demonstration to everyone, especially the anchorage's core worlds, of just how much the future won't be like the past they that were so comfortable with.

The only caveat I can see is that for that level of fine control, the RD's might need to be FTL controlled, which ought to fairly easy to marry the Mk-23E's AI and FTL receiver and transmitter to the RD after removing all non mission required equipment.

Just think of the RMN's tag line to the system;

"I hope you appreciate just how well we took out the garbage!"

:lol:

All the very best,

L


PeterZ wrote:I was envisioning the mothballed SDs orbiting a moon in multiple rings. One or two RDs could work through those rings easily enough.

Unless those bases orbited uninhabited planets, any relativistic sand would threaten civilians. Not sure what the impact of some amount of sand hitting the atmosphere at relativistic speeds and would be. I suspect not good at all.
quote="lyonheart"Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it. ;)

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L


PeterZ wrote:Why not simply send in a drone to run its wedge through every ship in its path? Or or three drones working together will destroy all the SDs in the anchorage in less than 20 minutes.
quote
Last edited by lyonheart on Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:48 pm

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Howdy all,

Of course, that suggestion reminded me of the line from the bar fight scene in the Star Trek TOS series episode "The Trouble With Tribbles" where the Klingon says the Enterprise isn't good enough to be even a garbage scow, 'but it should be hauled away AS GARBAGE".

Which is when Scotty hits him.

The bar fight was one of the best bits of business in the episode and the series NTM of all the series.

Keep smiling,

L


I suspect part of the mission planning would be to minimize collateral damage, and options such as approaching the anchorage from the angle of the nearest inhabited planet, so impacts would be away from it or any other inhabited planet or space habitat that might be affected.

Of course this is all speculation, but it all might be moot if the radius of the RD's wedge is more than 700 meters from the RD, since that's wider than any SD, so there would be no debris! ;) 8-) :lol:

I previously imagined that some of the debris might be somehow salvaged and the rest tracked falling into the sun, covered by the local newsies, but leaving absolutely nothing behind [other RD's may be needed as wing men to ensure that] is an even more powerful impressive demonstration to everyone, especially the anchorage's core worlds, of just how much the future won't be like the past they were so comfortable with.

The only caveat I can see is that for that level of fine control, the RD's might need to be FTL controlled, which ought to fairly easy to marry the Mk-23E's AI and FTL receiver and transmitter to the RD after removing all non mission required equipment.




just think of the RMN's tag line to the system;

"I hope you appreciate how well we took out the garbage!"

:lol:

All the very best,

L


PeterZ wrote:I was envisioning the mothballed SDs orbiting a moon in multiple rings. One or two RDs could work through those rings easily enough.

Unless those bases orbited uninhabited planets, any relativistic sand would threaten civilians. Not sure what the impact of some amount of sand hitting the atmosphere at relativistic speeds and would be. I suspect not good at all.
quote="lyonheart"Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it. ;)

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L


quote="PeterZ"Why not simply send in a drone to run its wedge through every ship in its path? Or or three drones working together will destroy all the SDs in the anchorage in less than 20 minutes.
[/quote]quotequote
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by lyonheart   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:17 pm

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Hi LDWechsler,

Your 18 T-month schedule would work great to preventing SD's or SDP's from being completed, enabling the same TG to conduct something near 70-80 'visits', 'checks' or raids, a pretty efficient use of assets, but could miss anyone building BCP's, which eventually will probably have a Keyhole-2 FTL capability.

However, patrolling every dwarf red star etc will cut into that number of inhabited systems, but given the number of TG's, but there will be lots of TG's.

Interesting time,

L


ldwechsler wrote:quote="PeterZ"I was envisioning the mothballed SDs orbiting a moon in multiple rings. One or two RDs could work through those rings easily enough.

Unless those bases orbited uninhabited planets, any relativistic sand would threaten civilians. Not sure what the impact of some amount of sand hitting the atmosphere at relativistic speeds and would be. I suspect not good at all.
quote="lyonheart"Hi PeterZ,

Even at rather low speeds, 3 RD's would take a while to turn around for the next pass some 30-40 times; it's much simpler to have 110-121 hit every rank or file all at once, then all rendezvous for pickup.

Then rinse and repeat, as another poster always seem to put it. ;)

Hitting SLN bases, not just the BF anchorages, with just relativistic sand, is kind of amusing; "Warning, warning! You have one half hour to abandon the station before a hundred-thousand tons of sand hits at .28+C, due to budget cutbacks and over enthusiastic missile use, we're using this simple very low fuel technique to please all the greenies out there; FYI, we couldn't stop it now if we wanted to, so this your final warning."

Keep smiling, and keep the good ideas coming.

L


Tactics are tactics but it's probably easier to simply come into a system and destroy ever orbital platform. Starting from scratch is very tough. First, there's the matter of setting up your first platforms so you can build the rest.

For the Manties, they could hit the major shipbuilding planets and destroy all the orbital facilities. Come back a year and half later and destroy everything built. Not enough time to really build a major ship.

And the Sollie League government is so openly corrupt that finding out information should be easy. Bolthole could be done because the people involved in setting it up were few and really determined to keep a secret. That kind of secrecy would be tough when dealing with bureaucracy.
[/quote]
Any snippet or post from RFC is good if not great!
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by PeterZ   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 2:55 pm

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We know that the SLN FF BCs are being sent as commerce raiders to knock the GA back a step or two. The hope is to both cause the SEM pain and to encourage SL polities to remain members of the League.

Where would the SLN strike to kill the most birds with their limited number of stones?

Certainly they will send a couple of squadrons to all those systems suspected of having Manty backed insurgents. The Silesia will get some attention as well as key Havenite systems.

My question is if the SLN will send in their BCs in larger TFs or against more targets but with fewer ships per target?
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:25 pm

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lyonheart wrote:[snip]Of course this is all speculation, but it all might be moot if the radius of the RD's wedge is more than 700 meters from the RD, since that's wider than any SD, so there would be no debris!
[snip]
The only caveat I can see is that for that level of fine control, the RD's might need to be FTL controlled, which ought to fairly easy to marry the Mk-23E's AI and FTL receiver and transmitter to the RD after removing all non mission required equipment.
[snip]

I tend to doubt that a wedge hitting a solid object like that would have no debris - and the quote of the tug Quay's attempts to interdict the station wreckage from hitting Sphynx seems to imply the same
Mission of Honor: Ch 29 wrote:Something large, jagged, and broken—it looked, in the fleeting glimpse he had, as if it were probably at least half of a heavy fabrication module, which must have massed the better part of thirty-five thousand tons—went screaming past Quay’s prow and impacted on the inner surface of her wedge’s roof. Or, rather, was ripped into very, very, very tiny bits and pieces in the instant it entered the zone in which local gravity went from effectively zero to several hundred thousand gravities in a space of barely five meters.
The object is converted to tiny bits and pieces and accelerated (presumably perpendicular to the plane of the wedge surface) at very high velocity.

So running through an SD when the recon drone's wedge kilt was pointed at a nearby planet might be what is categorized as a "bad thing". If that several hundred thousand gees (call it 4) applies for even a quarter second each bit would be moving at 3.5 million kph (980 km/s, or about 0.003c)

Sure that's pretty pitiful from a particle accelerator standpoint, but it's still a hell of a lot of energy (multiplied across several megatons) to have slamming into your atmosphere.

Still, it'd be trivial to make sure the wedges were pointed in safe directions.


As for FTL control the Ghost Rider RDs have had high bandwidth FTL links long before they were minaturized (and range reduced) to fit into an Apollo. No need to pull a Mk23E's limited transponder to try to fit it into an RD. If you want FTL control of the RD all you have to do is choose to broadcast (and increase your detection signature)
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Re: GA response to SL attempts to prevent seccessions
Post by kzt   » Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:39 pm

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lyonheart wrote:Hi PeterZ,

I suspect part of the mission planning would be to minimize collateral damage, and options such as approaching the anchorage from the angle of the nearest inhabited planet, so impacts would be away from it or any other inhabited planet or space habitat that might be affected.

Of course this is all speculation, but it all might be moot if the radius of the RD's wedge is more than 700 meters from the RD, since that's wider than any SD, so there would be no debris! ;) 8-) :lol:

I think the wedge will catastrophically fail with a 150 ton object hitting a 6 million ton object. There is an upper limit to what it can handle. And 4000x1 is almost certainly well about it.
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