Topic Actions

Topic Search

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Eagleeye, Google [Bot], pappilon, rustynut and 7 guests

How did Earth find itself in a squalor?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:52 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

I know what textev says but really...

How did Earth go from where it is now, to falling in such ill repute? The Final War decimated so much of the population so there shouldn't have been any unemployment or hunger. In the age of space travel resources should have been plentiful.

I just can't figure how Earth could find itself in the squalor it is in now. Earth should have enjoyed the best the other settlements had to offer. There was no need for greed.

All of their problems seem to center around the Mandarins, however how did the people of Earth get so naive and weak exposing their jugular to the Mandarins in the first place?

Also, the seat of the government seems to have materialized in the U.S. How did democracy allow the Mandarins to rise to power?

What happened to the ideals of the Constitution?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by Duckk   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:55 am

Duckk
Site Admin

Posts: 4088
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:29 pm

You have exactly one, extremely limited look at Earth, which you are extrapolating to encompass the entire planet. It's like dropping you off in Flint, Michigan and assuming the entire United States looks like that.
-------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:58 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Duckk wrote:You have exactly one, extremely limited look at Earth, which you are extrapolating encompass the entire planet. It's like dropping you off in Flint, Michigan and assuming the entire United States looks like that.

Indeed Duckk. Hence, the purpose of the thread. IDSTR textev enlightening me, care to give it a go? Or perhaps a post of David's somewhere?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:01 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Besides, whatever is going on in Flint Michigan does not affect the entire planet and several other star systems.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by Duckk   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:07 am

Duckk
Site Admin

Posts: 4088
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:29 pm

cthia wrote:Besides, whatever is going on in Flint Michigan does not affect the entire planet and several other star systems.


Irrelevant to the point. Everything we know of Earth basically comes from 1 short story set in a very small area in one city on Earth, and very fleeting passages elsewhere. You are assuming that the "squalor" extends to the whole planet, when there is absolutely no evidence to prove that.
-------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by Duckk   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:10 am

Duckk
Site Admin

Posts: 4088
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:29 pm

-------------------------
Shields at 50%, taunting at 100%! - Tom Pope
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:13 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Duckk wrote:
cthia wrote:Besides, whatever is going on in Flint Michigan does not affect the entire planet and several other star systems.


Irrelevant to the point. Everything we know of Earth basically comes from 1 short story set in a very small area in one city on Earth, and very fleeting passages elsewhere. You are assuming that the "squalor" extends to the whole planet, when there is absolutely no evidence to prove that.


There is the disconnect. You are assuming that the squalor in which I speak when I say Earth is the planet and not the government. And who is supposed to control the government? At least any government that is based in Old Chicago.

Besides, I'm not assuming anything. The proof is in the pudding. Everybody hates Old Earth.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by cthia   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:24 am

cthia
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 8152
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

Duckk wrote:http://infodump.thefifthimperium.com/entry/Harrington/233/1

Thanks for the dump, yet as in all of the others I've consumed it doesn't serve the meat and potatoes. It simply touches on Earth's peripheral problems and the same age old dilemma of the economic gap between classes. And the citizens' jadedness err ignorance. How do the people of Earth allow the government to find itself here?

Aside:

Klaus Hauptman wouldn't even make it onto the Solarian League's Fortune 500??? :o

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by PeterZ   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:18 am

PeterZ
Fleet Admiral

Posts: 5095
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:11 pm
Location: Colorado

The method is simple, Cthia. After the Final War "SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!"
People created the Solarian League assuming that the central government would remain small because, since every system could produce everything it needed locally, taxes based on free trade would ever be minute. That was true. Trade was a small potion of each nation's GSP.

What those creators forgot was all the forces surrounding bureaucratic inertia. OFS began by shepherding nations on the perimeter of the League into the more advanced levels of the Core League. By and large they were successful and taxed the developing world for their services. These worlds eventually joined the League. I believe the Shell was integrated into the League in this way.

Then as is the case in all things, OFS began accepting some graft. At first I am sure it made sense for an appendage of the underfunded government agency to look for corporate donations for them to continue their good work. For those donations, corporations received a quid pro quo. Pretty soon the agency was working for the "donations". Soon after that corporations began ....abusing their privileges over the protectorate states. Newly elevated systems began spending longer and longer time in Protectorate status. Eventually, every Tom, Dick and Harry Solarian were told that these people...neo-barbs, couldn't manage their lives without OFS to keep them out of barbarism.

As OFS transformed from an agency that elevated newly discovered systems into a giant vampire squid creating a financing mechanism to support itself and the rest of the federal government, the rest of the government developed appendages to enable OFS to complete its transformation. As those appendages got bigger, it allowed OFS to expand the scale and scope of its activities. That meant more money was being generated, which allowed the federal government to co-opt more and more of the League into supporting its activities.

The citizenry lost their say over the federal government when they declined to accept the burden of paying for their federal government. By transferring the tax burden to foreign entities that had no say in the functioning of the Solarian League federal government, the Solarian Citizen created the conditions for the federal government to ignore the League citizenry. The federal government paid little attention to the citizens because the citizens couldn't unfund their activities. The Citizens didn't spend a lot of time thinking about the federal government because the activities of the federal government didn't directly impact the League citizens one bit. So long as the messaging was controlled, the League citizens never grew aware of possible alarming activities. Add to that ANY League nation could veto any legislation and no elected body of the League did anything. EVERYTHING was done through agency level regulation and/or traditions.

That's why David put the League capitol in Old Chicago, that epitome of American government corruption. The League functions just as Chicago did in it's heyday.

Btw, I will bet dollars to donuts that Earth's local/national government is not so corrupt. The same is very likely true for almost all national governments in the Solarian League.
Top
Re: How did Earth find itself in a squalor?
Post by JohnRoth   » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:34 pm

JohnRoth
Admiral

Posts: 2108
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:54 am
Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA

Duckk wrote:
cthia wrote:Besides, whatever is going on in Flint Michigan does not affect the entire planet and several other star systems.


Irrelevant to the point. Everything we know of Earth basically comes from 1 short story set in a very small area in one city on Earth, and very fleeting passages elsewhere. You are assuming that the "squalor" extends to the whole planet, when there is absolutely no evidence to prove that.


Besides, that story, <i>From the Highlands</i> was by Eric Flint, who seemed to delight in inventing background that doesn't fit with what RFC has in his head, thus causing lots of confusion to the timeline. I'm just as happy Flint is no longer involved with the Honorverse.

It's threads like this that bring the dreaded t**** word to mind. I have difficulty imagining any purpose to it other than to stir up controversy among the fans.
Top

Return to Honorverse