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OBS - What happened to....

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OBS - What happened to....
Post by Fireflair   » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:32 pm

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So I was recently rereading OBS and it occurred to me that Honor is taking over the Fearless but she takes it from the XO. Why?

I've seen any number of change of command ceremonies of ships. In all sorts of conditions; new commissioning, shipyard, deployed, or just resting in port. Every single time the off going CO was there. Even a pre-commission unit has a CO.

We'd send enlisted men off the boat and they'd hi-five their replacement on the pier sometimes, if they were lucky. Usually the Leading Petty Officer would get a bit of time to turn over with his predecessor, though I took over twice without seeing the guy I replaced. Most of the time the chief gets to see his replacement, though sometimes that doesn't happen either. It happened to me once that I took over without seeing the chief I relieved.

I saw one department head get replaced without seeing his replacement. But I never saw the XO or CO change out with out a turn over process during which the off going and on coming officer had time to change places. The only times I've heard of this happening was when the off going CO/XO was injured.

So where was the Fearless's CO? This is a ship that's almost 80 years old, has seen plenty of service. She didn't just come back from battle or anything. And when you're in the yards the CO is busy busy keeping up with paperwork, encouraging the yard dogs to give priority to the refit items he's concerned about. Plus keeping his crew in training, sims, and so forth.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by Weird Harold   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:31 am

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Fireflair wrote:So I was recently rereading OBS and it occurred to me that Honor is taking over the Fearless but she takes it from the XO. Why?


Fearless came to Honor from the WDB's modification. The CO was transferred; IIRC because he vehemently disagreed with what the WDB was doing to the ship.
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by Eagleeye   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:32 am

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By the way - as Honor was forced to go away from her captainship of HMS NIKE, there wasn't an official Command changing ceremony, too. At least not in the book. Or does (aside from the MWW, maybe) anyone know the name of the officer who was Honors successor in command of HMS NIKE?
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by Fox2!   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:47 am

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Eagleeye wrote:By the way - as Honor was forced to go away from her captainship of HMS NIKE, there wasn't an official Command changing ceremony, too. At least not in the book. Or does (aside from the MWW, maybe) anyone know the name of the officer who was Honors successor in command of HMS NIKE?


Unless BUPERS had a Captain waiting in the wings, Mike Henke would have assumed command when Honor was relieved. They probably started screening available Captains after she issued her challenge to Young in the House of Lords.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by munroburton   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:21 am

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Fox2! wrote:
Eagleeye wrote:By the way - as Honor was forced to go away from her captainship of HMS NIKE, there wasn't an official Command changing ceremony, too. At least not in the book. Or does (aside from the MWW, maybe) anyone know the name of the officer who was Honors successor in command of HMS NIKE?


Unless BUPERS had a Captain waiting in the wings, Mike Henke would have assumed command when Honor was relieved. They probably started screening available Captains after she issued her challenge to Young in the House of Lords.


Mike was already gone, assigned to her own command. Nike's XO at the time was Evelyn Chandler. The scene near the end of FoD implies that Honor visited the Nike's bridge for the last time and then left it in her hands, temporarily, until BuPers could find a new Captain.

The next we hear of that Nike is when it's been sold to Alizon(?) and renamed Hancock or something like that to free the name up for the first BC(L).

I don't think it would've been easy to find a replacement captain quickly. The Nike typically demands a captain which is above average; with the war starting, practically all of the RMN's best captains would've already been deployed to assignments literally weeks away from Manticore.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by Theemile   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:12 am

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munroburton wrote:
Fox2! wrote:Unless BUPERS had a Captain waiting in the wings, Mike Henke would have assumed command when Honor was relieved. They probably started screening available Captains after she issued her challenge to Young in the House of Lords.


Mike was already gone, assigned to her own command. Nike's XO at the time was Evelyn Chandler. The scene near the end of FoD implies that Honor visited the Nike's bridge for the last time and then left it in her hands, temporarily, until BuPers could find a new Captain.

The next we hear of that Nike is when it's been sold to Alizon(?) and renamed Hancock or something like that to free the name up for the first BC(L).

I don't think it would've been easy to find a replacement captain quickly. The Nike typically demands a captain which is above average; with the war starting, practically all of the RMN's best captains would've already been deployed to assignments literally weeks away from Manticore.


Some of the Edward Saganami As were sold to Alizon. ( The name of Terekov's new Sag-c flagship was passed this way). Honor's Nike was just renamed to "Hancock Station" to open the name for the new Nike Class, but kept in RMN service.
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RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just about as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by robert132   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:05 pm

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Fireflair wrote:So I was recently rereading OBS and it occurred to me that Honor is taking over the Fearless but she takes it from the XO. Why?

I've seen any number of change of command ceremonies of ships. In all sorts of conditions; new commissioning, shipyard, deployed, or just resting in port. Every single time the off going CO was there. Even a pre-commission unit has a CO.

We'd send enlisted men off the boat and they'd hi-five their replacement on the pier sometimes, if they were lucky. Usually the Leading Petty Officer would get a bit of time to turn over with his predecessor, though I took over twice without seeing the guy I replaced. Most of the time the chief gets to see his replacement, though sometimes that doesn't happen either. It happened to me once that I took over without seeing the chief I relieved.

I saw one department head get replaced without seeing his replacement. But I never saw the XO or CO change out with out a turn over process during which the off going and on coming officer had time to change places. The only times I've heard of this happening was when the off going CO/XO was injured.

So where was the Fearless's CO? This is a ship that's almost 80 years old, has seen plenty of service. She didn't just come back from battle or anything. And when you're in the yards the CO is busy busy keeping up with paperwork, encouraging the yard dogs to give priority to the refit items he's concerned about. Plus keeping his crew in training, sims, and so forth.


I was career USN also and our current tradition is pretty much as you lay out unless the outgoing skipper was relieved for "cause" (i.e. him was bad boy) or he had to leave the ship ASAP due to medical reasons like injury (USS Fitzgerald's Captain.) The XO sits in the hot seat as "acting" skipper until either relieved by a new Captain or the current skipper returns. I've seen both.

However, the MWW was following to some extent the older (Age of Sail) Royal Navy tradition of the incoming Captain simply "reading himself (herself) in" in front of the crew and sometimes the outgoing Captain reading the orders detaching him from command.

It's the "reading in" that counts and we still see this in today's Navy when the incoming Captain reads his or her orders from BuPers under the authority of the Secretary of the Navy for him or her to assume command of the United States Ship Showboat.

This "reading in" is always done to make the assumption of command legal and as official notification to the ship's officers and through them the crew that they have a new Commanding Officer and who he or she is.

I believe it's scribbled into the Navy regs somewhere. ;)
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Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by saber964   » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:35 pm

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robert132 wrote:
Fireflair wrote:So I was recently rereading OBS and it occurred to me that Honor is taking over the Fearless but she takes it from the XO. Why?

I've seen any number of change of command ceremonies of ships. In all sorts of conditions; new commissioning, shipyard, deployed, or just resting in port. Every single time the off going CO was there. Even a pre-commission unit has a CO.

We'd send enlisted men off the boat and they'd hi-five their replacement on the pier sometimes, if they were lucky. Usually the Leading Petty Officer would get a bit of time to turn over with his predecessor, though I took over twice without seeing the guy I replaced. Most of the time the chief gets to see his replacement, though sometimes that doesn't happen either. It happened to me once that I took over without seeing the chief I relieved.

I saw one department head get replaced without seeing his replacement. But I never saw the XO or CO change out with out a turn over process during which the off going and on coming officer had time to change places. The only times I've heard of this happening was when the off going CO/XO was injured.

So where was the Fearless's CO? This is a ship that's almost 80 years old, has seen plenty of service. She didn't just come back from battle or anything. And when you're in the yards the CO is busy busy keeping up with paperwork, encouraging the yard dogs to give priority to the refit items he's concerned about. Plus keeping his crew in training, sims, and so forth.


I was career USN also and our current tradition is pretty much as you lay out unless the outgoing skipper was relieved for "cause" (i.e. him was bad boy) or he had to leave the ship ASAP due to medical reasons like injury (USS Fitzgerald's Captain.) The XO sits in the hot seat as "acting" skipper until either relieved by a new Captain or the current skipper returns. I've seen both.

However, the MWW was following to some extent the older (Age of Sail) Royal Navy tradition of the incoming Captain simply "reading himself (herself) in" in front of the crew and sometimes the outgoing Captain reading the orders detaching him from command.

It's the "reading in" that counts and we still see this in today's Navy when the incoming Captain reads his or her orders from BuPers under the authority of the Secretary of the Navy for him or her to assume command of the United States Ship Showboat.

This "reading in" is always done to make the assumption of command legal and as official notification to the ship's officers and through them the crew that they have a new Commanding Officer and who he or she is.

I believe it's scribbled into the Navy regs somewhere. ;)



Also with the proper deck log entry. Because after that time, you screw up it's your problem.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by robert132   » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:38 pm

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saber964 wrote:Also with the proper deck log entry. Because after that time, you screw up it's your problem.


Precisely!
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: OBS - What happened to....
Post by munroburton   » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:41 am

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Theemile wrote:Some of the Edward Saganami As were sold to Alizon. ( The name of Terekov's new Sag-c flagship was passed this way). Honor's Nike was just renamed to "Hancock Station" to open the name for the new Nike Class, but kept in RMN service.


Ah, yes. Found it in AAC - the Reliants were listed for disposal before the war broke out again and saved them from the breakers.

That poor ship was barely fifteen years old. :(
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