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Oh, what the heck . . .

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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by kzt   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:34 pm

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PeterZ wrote:Manticore has seriously large cash inflows because of the MWJ. That cash needs to be exported or else they will suffer from massive inflation.

No they don't. They have banned most of the traffic through it and everyone left gets really cheap rates. Military and construction traffic to/from Beowulf and Gregor doesn't generate a lot of cash.

Nobody is buying anything from Manticore (it seems someone blew up their industrial plant some time ago), so they don't have any export traffic nor any income from that. Instead Manticore is trying to replace 10 years of Gross System Product in 2 years, while having greatly reduced tax income and having to buy all the components from Beowulf, the AE or the more primitive stuff from the RH. This does not produce a huge surplus of cash for Manticore that needs to be exported. Instead Manticore is incurring huge bills.

I have no idea how they are paying for this huge process, how do you think they are funding it?

Oh, and they also killed their financial trade when they banned traffic to the SL, and presumably the SL reciprocated in actuality if not formally.
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by Lunan   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:38 pm

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kzt wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Manticore has seriously large cash inflows because of the MWJ. That cash needs to be exported or else they will suffer from massive inflation.

No they don't. They have banned most of the traffic through it and everyone left gets really cheap rates. Military and construction traffic to/from Beowulf and Gregor doesn't generate a lot of cash.

Nobody is buying anything from Manticore (it seems someone blew up their industrial plant some time ago), so they don't have any export traffic nor any income from that. Instead Manticore is trying to replace 10 years of Gross System Product in 2 years, while having greatly reduced tax income and having to buy all the components from Beowulf, the AE or the more primitive stuff from the RH. This does not produce a huge surplus of cash for Manticore that needs to be exported. Instead Manticore is incurring huge bills.

I have no idea how they are paying for this huge process, how do you think they are funding it?

Oh, and they also killed their financial trade when they banned traffic to the SL, and presumably the SL reciprocated in actuality if not formally.


I wonder what thier internal trade looks like. Silesa, Talbot, etc. also what is happening trade wise with the republic of haven?
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:38 pm

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Lunan wrote:snip

And am i the ONLY one who wants to know about Silesa? those systems should provde almost as much a boost to the SEM as Talbot. I mean assuming that after UH David jumps the timeline forward (as originally planed) this of course assumes he comes back to the Honorverse after UH. Jump that story 20, 30, maybe even 50 years into the future, we will have new empires, kingdoms, republics, etc at the galactic power resettles. Honor is "retired" can you say Prime Minister Alexander-Harrington. The Invictus 2 is the ship of the wall of choice, and here is the RF coming to talk


Heavens but I hope he doesn't jump 50 years. There is sooooo much happening in both Talbot and Selesia regardless of how UH turns out. Possible stories of a wild and wooly frontier being tamed just scream to be told!
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by Lunan   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:43 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Heavens but I hope he doesn't jump 50 years. There is sooooo much happening in both Talbot and Selesia regardless of how UH turns out. Possible stories of a wild and wooly frontier being tamed just scream to be told!


i disagree, but thats just personal taste. I think there are already great frontier settling stories out there(not DWs to be fair) that i'm not interested in those.
The silesa stories i want are whats been happening, how the CN got rolled into the RMN. How sarnow is doing with webster to help and the last 8 years of happenings out there. now i think those can be told in short stories not full novels.
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by Lunan   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:49 pm

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also, just assuming David will still tell honorverse stories after UH(yes i hope so)

It is time for our main characters to go away. (NOT DIE, at least not all)
But by jumping to the future we can see totally new stories, yes we will know that the MA is behind it, thats ok.
What haeppnes with the spider drive SDs, will this universe develop Moniters and Super Moniters
What happens when there isn't just 1 or 2 biggish highly technological nations.
What happens when the Andies are not neutral or friendly for real. Will Maya stay friendly. etc. i think jumping 30 or more years up(prolong remember) is a good idea
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:49 pm

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kzt wrote:
PeterZ wrote:Manticore has seriously large cash inflows because of the MWJ. That cash needs to be exported or else they will suffer from massive inflation.

No they don't. They have banned most of the traffic through it and everyone left gets really cheap rates. Military and construction traffic to/from Beowulf and Gregor doesn't generate a lot of cash.

Nobody is buying anything from Manticore (it seems someone blew up their industrial plant some time ago), so they don't have any export traffic nor any income from that. Instead Manticore is trying to replace 10 years of Gross System Product in 2 years, while having greatly reduced tax income and having to buy all the components from Beowulf, the AE or the more primitive stuff from the RH. This does not produce a huge surplus of cash for Manticore that needs to be exported. Instead Manticore is incurring huge bills.

I have no idea how they are paying for this huge process, how do you think they are funding it?

Oh, and they also killed their financial trade when they banned traffic to the SL, and presumably the SL reciprocated in actuality if not formally.


How long has the MWJ been providing cash for the SKM? That wealth from all that cash flowing into the SKM exists still in other forms. Much of that is in bonds and loans. Yet, unless those loans are made to people outside the SKM, that cash would still circulate within the SKM. Since the SKM didn't have any inflation issues, it stands to reason that much of that cash has been exported in the form of buying foreign bonds, foreign investments and loans to foreign entities. Those assets still have value. Even assets purchased from the SL are still worth something on Beowulf.

I suspect that much of those assets are being liquidated at a discount and those proceeds are being used to pay for the military and industrial buildup to replace the Oyster Bay losses. Rather liquidated and then used to purchase SEM War Bonds.
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:58 pm

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Lunan wrote:
PeterZ wrote:
Heavens but I hope he doesn't jump 50 years. There is sooooo much happening in both Talbot and Selesia regardless of how UH turns out. Possible stories of a wild and wooly frontier being tamed just scream to be told!


i disagree, but thats just personal taste. I think there are already great frontier settling stories out there(not DWs to be fair) that i'm not interested in those.
The silesa stories i want are whats been happening, how the CN got rolled into the RMN. How sarnow is doing with webster to help and the last 8 years of happenings out there. now i think those can be told in short stories not full novels.


Ok, there will be political stories depicting regional wars and conflicts requiring Abby and company to launch into death rides. Stories about who Abby will finally end up with. Stories about Eloise and Theisman retiring from office in a Washingtonian gesture of relinquishing power. They will relocate to Sanctuary and build the systems newly entered into Haven.

Lots of stories about building frontiers, but not in all cases Wild West stories but nation building stories.
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by Lunan   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:02 pm

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PeterZ wrote:
Ok, there will be political stories depicting regional wars and conflicts requiring Abby and company to launch into death rides. Stories about who Abby will finally end up with. Stories about Eloise and Theisman retiring from office in a Washingtonian gesture of relinquishing power. They will relocate to Sanctuary and build the systems newly entered into Haven.

Lots of stories about building frontiers, but not in all cases Wild West stories but nation building stories.


would you agree those can happen in short story anthologies? Maybe outlined by MWW but not all of them need to be written by him?
while some of those stories could be fun they would seem like fluff and filler as full novels, in which case i would rather himself write more norfressa, or even something totally new
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by kzt   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:09 pm

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PeterZ wrote:How long has the MWJ been providing cash for the SKM? That wealth from all that cash flowing into the SKM exists still in other forms. Much of that is in bonds and loans. Yet, unless those loans are made to people outside the SKM, that cash would still circulate within the SKM. Since the SKM didn't have any inflation issues, it stands to reason that much of that cash has been exported in the form of buying foreign bonds, foreign investments and loans to foreign entities. Those assets still have value. Even assets purchased from the SL are still worth something on Beowulf.

I suspect that much of those assets are being liquidated at a discount and those proceeds are being used to pay for the military and industrial buildup to replace the Oyster Bay losses. Rather liquidated and then used to purchase SEM War Bonds.

The majority of the population and the vast majority of the wealth of humanity is in the SL. So they may have some issues with that plan. How much could you get for your shares in Krupp AG or Messerschmitt AG selling on the NYSE in 1942?
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Re: Oh, what the heck . . .
Post by PeterZ   » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:24 pm

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kzt wrote:
PeterZ wrote:How long has the MWJ been providing cash for the SKM? That wealth from all that cash flowing into the SKM exists still in other forms. Much of that is in bonds and loans. Yet, unless those loans are made to people outside the SKM, that cash would still circulate within the SKM. Since the SKM didn't have any inflation issues, it stands to reason that much of that cash has been exported in the form of buying foreign bonds, foreign investments and loans to foreign entities. Those assets still have value. Even assets purchased from the SL are still worth something on Beowulf.

I suspect that much of those assets are being liquidated at a discount and those proceeds are being used to pay for the military and industrial buildup to replace the Oyster Bay losses. Rather liquidated and then used to purchase SEM War Bonds.

The majority of the population and the vast majority of the wealth of humanity is in the SL. So they may have some issues with that plan. How much could you get for your shares in Krupp AG or Messerschmitt AG selling on the NYSE in 1942?


Not apples to apples. Assuming Manty investment in the Solarian League eschewed those firms heavy into Import/Export, those investments would be akin to providing Rockefeller with start-up funds for Standard Oil in 1860. The nation was going into a civil war but the company would not be at serious risk. Much of those assets would be in Beowulf and the daughter systems.

They wouldn't invest in companies competing with Manty firms. Nor would they invest in companies that are subject to too risky a regulatory environment. Like say....confiscation by a greedy government. Investments outside of the SL are safe and sound.
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