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Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by robert132   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:51 pm

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roseandheather wrote:Chapters 3 - 8

Now, too, I'm even more impressed with Honor's way of pulling the crew together. When you dump impossible amounts of responsibility on someone's shoulders, they will either rise to it or crumble under it - and you have got to know which. I think that seeing what they could do was almost imperative before they could see what she could do. And without that, they wouldn't have survived the battle with Sirius.



There is that Dear Lady. And there is knowing or feeling when a little bit of encouragement or support applied at just the right time in just the right way helps those young shoulders handle that burden. Especially when that "support" is in assigning one of the most unlikely rough-knots (Harkness) to help shepherd perhaps the youngest, least experienced and most earnest pups with his task.

That most unlikely team-up was perhaps the 2nd most successful to come out of that mission, right behind Honor and Alistair.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:24 pm

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What really irked me was the depressing anticlimactic end to Honor's climax in receiving her first hyper command? She was so happy, so exuberant being given command of Fearless. Her exuberance was countermanded so quickly, letting the sails out from under her wings, that the storyline shocked and confused me. OBS was my initial introduction to Honor's world, so it didn't seem to me that she was the star of the series. I recall thinking... 'WTF!'

It is the only time I remember Honor allowing the kid to come out of her, in her quarters -- in those virgin moments of excitement and anticipation of her first maiden hyper voyage. She must have been feeling like Kirk, eager to meet the unknown head on and see what lies "out there." I don't think we ever saw that innocent little kid again in Honor -- the little kid in all of us. It was as if the entire universe conspired against her and lay waiting in ambush, knowing full well Harrington would be coming along soon, so as to slap her little naive backside for daring to be pleased with herself and happy to have received command...

"Whack! Welcome to the real world, Sally."

"My name's not Sally."

"It will be. I'm just giving you a head's up. Name's Murphy, Demon."

It also suggests that she actually did have a handle on diplomacy very early on by the way she handled her crew. Yet, IMO, we lost a bit of Honor in OBS who lost quite a bit of her innocence and naivety right then and there. I don't think she ever danced on a cloud again until falling in love with Paul Tankersley. And then the music from that record was abruptly stopped.

"Scraaaaatch!"

Even so, OBS remains my favorite of all posts given unto me by the Admiralty thus far. So much raw passion and emotion. I've read opinions that RFC doesn't write love stories so well. I wholeheartedly disagree. OBS is one of the most powerful love stories I've ever consumed. The love triangle between the ship the crew and the captain is tearjerkingly unforgettable. A love that is forged in the heat of battle. A well tempered love that endured and endured and endured...

'snif'

I envy your reread rose.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:34 pm

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cthia wrote:What really irked me was the depressing anticlimactic end to Honor's climax in receiving her first hyper command? She was so happy, so exuberant being given command of Fearless.
Minor correction; the CL Fearless was Honor's second hyper capable command.

Prior to attending ATC she'd commanded the destroyer HMS Hawkwing (the same one later destroyed in Silesia during HAE). [Though even back then it was uncommon to command a destroyer prior to graduating the ATC course; and anything larger was unheard of]
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:44 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
cthia wrote:What really irked me was the depressing anticlimactic end to Honor's climax in receiving her first hyper command? She was so happy, so exuberant being given command of Fearless.
Minor correction; the CL Fearless was Honor's second hyper capable command.

Prior to attending ATC she'd commanded the destroyer HMS Hawkwing (the same one later destroyed in Silesia during HAE). [Though even back then it was uncommon to command a destroyer prior to graduating the ATC course; and anything larger was unheard of]

Thanks Jonathan. I recalled that myself then checked the wiki and found it so. It was too late to edit, so I simply settled with inserting a question mark.

Makes me more green with rose's reread. Honor was happy about something in particular. Perhaps the upgrade in tonnage?

Anyways, thanks again for the correction.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:16 pm

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cthia wrote:Thanks Jonathan. I recalled that myself then checked the wiki and found it so. It was too late to edit, so I simply settled with inserting a question mark.

Makes me more green with rose's reread. Honor was happy about something in particular. Perhaps the upgrade in tonnage?

Anyways, thanks again for the correction.
Delight at getting a cruiser command
On Basilisk Station wrote:She [Honor] grinned again, feeling the bubble of delight pushing her worries aside [...] A cruiser command, the dream of every officer worth her salt! So what if Fearless was twice her own age and little larger than a modern destroyer? She was still a cruiser, and cruisers were the Manticoran Navy's eyes and ears, its escorts and its raiders, the stuff of independent commands and opportunity.

Destroyers, especially back then, tended to be shorter ranged and therefore more often operated with fleets and not as frequently detached for independent missions.
Though I'm not sure how much of that was theory vs practice during peacetime.

The likely place you'd see action was anti-piracy patrols in Silesia and destroyers did seem to get independent deployments there fairly routinely - despite the lack of any fleet base closer than Manticore itself. (I'm guessing there were more than a few Silesian systems willing to sell food and fuel to RMN units - that would mitigate a lot of the destroyer's cruising endurance shortcomings. And anti-piracy isn't sustained combat; so combat endurance (depth of magazines) isn't much of a factor either)

So in practice I'm not sure that during peacetime a CL is likely to get more frequent or interesting independent deployments than a DD. But still, cruisers are the prestige unit even when there was little practical day to day difference in peacetime usage.
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:58 pm

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Honor's command style makes me wonder if it was developed and cultivated on Hawkwing? Was it patterned after someone else? Sarnow maybe? Substituting tact in lieu of "blustering battle steel?"

It also makes me wonder about her crew on Hawkwing and why we were never introduced to at least one of that crew during or after Fearless who became close to her then. Or at least respected her. Not even one?

Or did they all dislike her as well and the lesson she learned from that command was carried onto Fearless?

After all, she was rather young for a destroyer as well, especially in light of not yet having graduated ATC. Same conditions of jealousy present then as well.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by cthia   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:08 pm

cthia
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In fact, Honor should have very special rings commissioned and given to everyone still remaining in that close knit family, which simply says Fearless.

Chokes me up. Would them too!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by runsforcelery   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:24 pm

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cthia wrote:Honor's command style makes me wonder if it was developed and cultivated on Hawkwing? Was it patterned after someone else? Sarnow maybe? Substituting tact in lieu of "blustering battle steel?"

It also makes me wonder about her crew on Hawkwing and why we were never introduced to at least one of that crew during or after Fearless who became close to her then. Or at least respected her. Not even one?

Or did they all dislike her as well and the lesson she learned from that command was carried onto Fearless?

After all, she was rather young for a destroyer as well, especially in light of not yet having graduated ATC. Same conditions of jealousy present then as well.



Hint. There is a certain short story in which a young Honor Harrington serves under a cruiser captain from whom she acquires her signature phrase: "Let's be about it." Now, I'm not necessarily saying anything about role models, but . . . :roll:


"Oh, bother!" said Pooh, as Piglet came back from the dead.
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by kzt   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:34 pm

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runsforcelery wrote: Hint. There is a certain short story in which a young Honor Harrington serves under a cruiser captain from whom she acquires her signature phrase: "Let's be about it." Now, I'm not necessarily saying anything about role models, but . . . :roll:

Clearly just a coincidence. 8-)
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Re: Rosie Re-reads, Part 1: "On Basilisk Station"
Post by Sigs   » Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:48 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
The likely place you'd see action was anti-piracy patrols in Silesia and destroyers did seem to get independent deployments there fairly routinely - despite the lack of any fleet base closer than Manticore itself. (I'm guessing there were more than a few Silesian systems willing to sell food and fuel to RMN units - that would mitigate a lot of the destroyer's cruising endurance shortcomings. And anti-piracy isn't sustained combat; so combat endurance (depth of magazines) isn't much of a factor either)

So in practice I'm not sure that during peacetime a CL is likely to get more frequent or interesting independent deployments than a DD. But still, cruisers are the prestige unit even when there was little practical day to day difference in peacetime usage.


The fleet train that helped the RMN during the first Havenite war also helped them out when patrolling Silesia. You wont necessarily need a base for individual units if you bring everything you may need with you to Silesia and arrange resupply with individual patrols.
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