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The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?

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The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:52 am

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The GA controls the Alignment's orbitals, what now?

Would the Darius population of slaves be earmarked for Torch? Would that even be feasible? Or would a police force be forever stationed there as it is with Masada? What is the ultimate inevitable fate of the Dariusian society if the GA ever overcomes the Alignment?

What will be the mentality of a radio-free people sheltered all of their lives?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:22 pm

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cthia wrote:The GA controls the Alignment's orbitals, what now?

Would the Darius population of slaves be earmarked for Torch? Would that even be feasible? Or would a police force be forever stationed there as it is with Masada? What is the ultimate inevitable fate of the Dariusian society if the GA ever overcomes the Alignment?

What will be the mentality of a radio-free people sheltered all of their lives?


Interesting you should ask that question, and especially compare it to Masada.

The first, rather obvious thing is that occupying the orbitals doesn't mean a whole lot, since I doubt if they care about the SL's warfare treaties. I think the GA is going to have to pound the entire space industry into very small bits of space junk first and then be prepared to use kinetic weapons on a few places before they can get effective control.

It's not a good start to the "we come in peace and friendship" meme.
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:24 pm

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JohnRoth wrote:
cthia wrote:The GA controls the Alignment's orbitals, what now?

Would the Darius population of slaves be earmarked for Torch? Would that even be feasible? Or would a police force be forever stationed there as it is with Masada? What is the ultimate inevitable fate of the Dariusian society if the GA ever overcomes the Alignment?

What will be the mentality of a radio-free people sheltered all of their lives?


Interesting you should ask that question, and especially compare it to Masada.

The first, rather obvious thing is that occupying the orbitals doesn't mean a whole lot, since I doubt if they care about the SL's warfare treaties. I think the GA is going to have to pound the entire space industry into very small bits of space junk first and then be prepared to use kinetic weapons on a few places before they can get effective control.

It's not a good start to the "we come in peace and friendship" meme.

Didn't really mean to compare the idea to the occupation of Masada. Masada just happens to be the only precedent storyline has provided us with that I'm aware of, so for the sake of conversation I simply thought I'd begin the bidding there?...

As far as trashing the system's infrastructure is concerned, I imagine that is a given. Even if the GA can go directly for the orbitals, which I think unlikely, I doubt they'd want to leave the industry intact.

My more serious concern is for the Alignment's citizens, which intuitively would prove to be problematical, certainly not as straightforward as one would think.

What extent of kinetic weapons might the Alignment force on the GA? Suddenly, I want to know the population density per slaves non-slaves. It all just seems like a bag of military and political worms awaiting the GA.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by JohnRoth   » Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:39 pm

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cthia wrote: ... It all just seems like a bag of military and political worms awaiting the GA.


Of course it is. That's a given, but also given that Himself isn't going to be invading Darius in the last book, it's not likely to something we're ever going to see. That makes it somewhat of a political Rorschach test.

Actually, after Cauldron of Ghosts I wanted to see how he handled the mess on Mesa, but he skipped out on that one too.
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:02 am

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IIRC textev states that the slaves in Darius believe they are working to build a fleet to defend Darius, anything the GA does in the way of destruction of the orbital platforms, whether civilian or military, will enhance their belief.

However as was posted earlier, the chances of us readers finding out what will ultimately happen at Darius is unlikely.
.
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Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by cthia   » Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:14 pm

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George J. Smith wrote:IIRC textev states that the slaves in Darius believe they are working to build a fleet to defend Darius, anything the GA does in the way of destruction of the orbital platforms, whether civilian or military, will enhance their belief.

However as was posted earlier, the chances of us readers finding out what will ultimately happen at Darius is unlikely.

I hope you mean unlikely that we'll find out what happens in this series.

Right now, somehow it reminds me of the Cuban Missile Crisis when the USN set up a blockade against the Russian Navy but gave no real rules of engagement.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by George J. Smith   » Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:57 am

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cthia wrote:
George J. Smith wrote:IIRC textev states that the slaves in Darius believe they are working to build a fleet to defend Darius, anything the GA does in the way of destruction of the orbital platforms, whether civilian or military, will enhance their belief.

However as was posted earlier, the chances of us readers finding out what will ultimately happen at Darius is unlikely.

I hope you mean unlikely that we'll find out what happens in this series.

Right now, somehow it reminds me of the Cuban Missile Crisis when the USN set up a blockade against the Russian Navy but gave no real rules of engagement.


Unfortunately given the number of other projects rfc is committed to, and the present state of his and his wife's health, the next Honorverse book may be the last, hopefully not but there is that chance. :(
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by Maldorian   » Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:23 am

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Or would a police force be forever stationed there as it is with Masada?


I think the manticorian Army is too buisy to invade Darius. The Army has to Keep control over Masada and we don´t even know on how many planets in the ex silesian confederation.

We shouldn´t forget the Alingnement. They put suicide mods into their agents, I bet they have self destruct devices in their facilities in Orbit and on the planet.
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by JohnRoth   » Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:07 am

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Let's do a bit of thinking about what the situation really is on Darius. The Big Lie is in place, but that's only the tip of the iceberg. RFC has given us plenty of hints.

Contrary to a couple of earlier comments in textev, Darius doesn't have genetic slaves. What it does have is lots of specialty genetic lines at the Beta and Gamma levels. We've seen a number of them already.

Albrecht Detweiller's and Aldona Anisimovna's bodyguards are specialty Gamma lines; they're treated as respected specialists in their fields. Rufino C's clone brother (brothers?) was Isabel Bardisino's bodyguard.

Rufino C.'s girlfriend is a hugely manipulative fem fatale. She had her target wrapped around her little finger, and she's got Rufino as well. The difference is that Rufino knows what's going on.

The Mesan mole in the Gendarme has a contact whose cover is as a sex worker. She's a Beta line who's the equivalent of the sex slave lines with a hyper-active libido and movie-star looks, except she isn't a slave.

There's a preface in one of the books that details Leonard Detweiller's viewpoint, including the idea that people should be gene-engineered to fit their jobs. I've lost track of where it is.

So, you arrive on Darius and discover that 80% or more (possibly as much as 95%) are specialty gene-engineered lines who are very good at their jobs, but probably abysmal at very much else, including being able to handle the average citizen's responsibilities in running a democratic planet.

What are you going to do?

Clue: you might want to ask the people on Torch. I don't get the idea that they're all that unhappy with the notion of gene-engineered specialty lines, only the idea of genetic slavery and the way Manpower treated them.
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Re: The GA controls the MA's orbitals - what now?
Post by Louis R   » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:17 pm

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The situation on Masada is quite different: they know what the rest of the universe is like, and are convinced, with some notable exceptions [like the female 3/4], that it's their task to fix it. And it's not regardless of how many eggs they break. They actually seem to think 'the more the better'. You can't change their minds, so the only thing to do is sit on them until they change themselves.

Much of the population of Darius has no clue what is out there, and thinks 'out there' is out to get them. The rest probably knows rather more, but most of them have never actually seen it and probably don't really believe what they've heard, but do think it's broke and they need to fix it [reminds me of the typical 21st-century Terran, actually]. For a lot of them, the cure is to let them go take a look for themselves. Just not in warships.

IOW, treat Darius rather like Thebes.

cthia wrote:The GA controls the Alignment's orbitals, what now?

Would the Darius population of slaves be earmarked for Torch? Would that even be feasible? Or would a police force be forever stationed there as it is with Masada? What is the ultimate inevitable fate of the Dariusian society if the GA ever overcomes the Alignment?

What will be the mentality of a radio-free people sheltered all of their lives?
cthia wrote:
JohnRoth wrote:
Interesting you should ask that question, and especially compare it to Masada.

The first, rather obvious thing is that occupying the orbitals doesn't mean a whole lot, since I doubt if they care about the SL's warfare treaties. I think the GA is going to have to pound the entire space industry into very small bits of space junk first and then be prepared to use kinetic weapons on a few places before they can get effective control.

It's not a good start to the "we come in peace and friendship" meme.

Didn't really mean to compare the idea to the occupation of Masada. Masada just happens to be the only precedent storyline has provided us with that I'm aware of, so for the sake of conversation I simply thought I'd begin the bidding there?...

As far as trashing the system's infrastructure is concerned, I imagine that is a given. Even if the GA can go directly for the orbitals, which I think unlikely, I doubt they'd want to leave the industry intact.

My more serious concern is for the Alignment's citizens, which intuitively would prove to be problematical, certainly not as straightforward as one would think.

What extent of kinetic weapons might the Alignment force on the GA? Suddenly, I want to know the population density per slaves non-slaves. It all just seems like a bag of military and political worms awaiting the GA.
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