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THE C R U S H E R

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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Annachie   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:08 pm

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Iirc, Honor had Andrea sub for her when getting her arm worked on prevented her from giving the lectures etc.
Perhaps Andrea was added to the instructors list to facilitate this.

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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Annachie   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:12 pm

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We don't know that Pavel Young passed the crusher.
Perhaps the reason he ended up at Basilisk was that he was promoted to captain a cruiser without the course.
I could see his fathers influence being able to handle that.

Hell, just have him as the exec of a cruiser, bribe or blackmail the captain to leaving suddenly and force through a field promotion.

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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by robert132   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:20 pm

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Fox2! wrote:Your personal fulfillment ranks fairly low on the priorities of the military when determining what they want you to do. It's part of the the whole service thing.
That's why they call it a "dream sheet." You dream, your career manager sends you where he wants to. If they match, buy a bunch of lottery tickets.


LOL!!! That's exactly what a lot of us thought before I retired from the USN, though we called the "Career Manager" for our rating (Job Specialty) the Detailer.

My Dream Sheet and the "needs of the Navy" coincided exactly once during my 21 years, sea duty in an Atlantic Fleet destroyer. Turned out to be the best assignment ("tour") I had.

On the CRUSHER, I'm sure you've all noted the Bridge Combat simulations run aboard nearly every ship Honor served in or commanded. It's the smart CO who would use these as a "mini-crusher" to sift through and sort out the youngsters the Skipper would like shepherd further in their careers, guiding them into the fields where they best shine including the Holy Grail of Tactical. That assumes of course that the CO isn't an oxygen thief like Pavel Young.

Those that Lady Alexander-Harrington sweated the hardest in those simulations IIRC were the ones who shined brightest in command and probably (IMHO) had less trouble surviving the CRUSHER than many others would have.

Did Ginger ever participate in any of Honor's simulations aboard Wayfarer? I don't recall.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by robert132   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:25 pm

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Annachie wrote:We don't know that Pavel Young passed the crusher.
Perhaps the reason he ended up at Basilisk was that he was promoted to captain a cruiser without the course.
I could see his fathers influence being able to handle that.

Hell, just have him as the exec of a cruiser, bribe or blackmail the captain to leaving suddenly and force through a field promotion.


That's a possibility. We never did learn HOW Pavel Young achieved command of a scow let alone HMS Warlock. I'd hate to think "something unfortunate" happened to her previous Captain.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Annachie   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:32 pm

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It does make me wonder when you think of a couple of admirals who presumably passed it.

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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:57 pm

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cthia wrote:The more I contemplate the mechanics of the Crusher the more I'm puzzled about Pavel Young passing it.

There must have been a list of instructors there, each with his own course work. When Honor was there she was simply one instructor amongst many. I simply cannot see Young passing all courses. If Young had Courvoisier for anything, he failed. And I cannot imagine failing a single aspect of the Crusher being acceptable, as Honor could not have failed math.

And if, say, Courvoisier failed Young then it would be obvious to Courvoisier that something fishy this way comes if Young still passed.

I know that cronyism and the good old boy network are in bed together, but I simply cannot see a polity like Manticore who is so deeply entrenched in its moral and ethical ideals to allow the ugly side of politics to invade an institution which is so instrumental to its existence as Saganami Island to the point that it risks the lives of its men and women by allowing someone like Young to buck the system. Something like that taints the tradition of Edward Saganami.

Saganami is spinning in his grave so fast it is upsetting the rotation of the planet.

ISTR a stampede of students competing for Honor's classes, which seem to support the same type of mechanics of a traditional university of several instructors teaching the same course. It would have to be that way to feed the ravenous appetite of BuPers to graduate so many.

Is it a given how long the course is?

I'd also like to know what Honor actually taught.

The wiki states that Henke and Harrington were roommates for three years. I would imagine that its a four year course that the two of them completed in three? Or even a four year course that was shortened to three, because of the ravenous need of BuPers, which would cut such courses as history. Though Honor wasn't short of instruction there by any meter stick.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:09 pm

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cthia wrote:
cthia wrote:ISTR a stampede of students competing for Honor's classes, which seem to support the same type of mechanics of a traditional university of several instructors teaching the same course. It would have to be that way to feed the ravenous appetite of BuPers to graduate so many.

Is it a given how long the course is?

I'd also like to know what Honor actually taught.

The wiki states that Henke and Harrington were roommates for three years. I would imagine that its a four year course that the two of them completed in three? Or even a four year course that was shortened to three, because of the ravenous need of BuPers, which would cut such courses as history. Though Honor wasn't short of instruction there by any meter stick.
I'm almost certain Honor and Michelle were roommates while attending the 'undergrad' portion of the Acadamy, not when Honor returned between Hawkwing and Fearless to take the 'Crusher' course.

Incidentally the actual quote from SVW is "They'd been roommates at Saganami Island for over three T-years"; with 3 T-years being about 1.7 Manticoran years.

As to the length of the 'undergrad' program OBS says "two and a half years of Academy classes", and also "those forty-five endless months on Saganami Island were deliberately planned to leave even midshipmen without 'cats too few hours to do everything they had to do". That seems to track with about 2.5 Manticoran years, or 3.75 T-years; so they were probably roommates that entire time.

Though we know (from SoS, any IIRC some other places) that the 'undergrad' training gets compressed in wartime with snotties graduating early to feed the personnel demands of a war footing. But I don't remember how much that 45 months got compressed by.


However the ATC, aka the Crusher, is (we're told by AoV) a 6 T-month course. (A grueling one but "only" half a T-year)


Oh, and in addition to being commandant of the Advanced Tactical Course I seem to recall she taught a Tactics 101 Lecture over in Saganami Island Proper. (Yep, AoV confirms that)
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by saber964   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:49 pm

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Annachie wrote:We don't know that Pavel Young passed the crusher.
Perhaps the reason he ended up at Basilisk was that he was promoted to captain a cruiser without the course.
I could see his fathers influence being able to handle that.

Hell, just have him as the exec of a cruiser, bribe or blackmail the captain to leaving suddenly and force through a field promotion.

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No, Young probably passed it. With the help of dear old daddy and his blackmail files.

You have to look at a time line to see when Young was at ATC. IIRC Young had been in command of Warlock for just over a year when Fearless showed up in late 1900 PD. So Young probably took the course when he was a LCDR/CDR probably 5-6 years before Honor did.
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 23, 2017 11:11 pm

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cthia wrote:
cthia wrote:ISTR a stampede of students competing for Honor's classes, which seem to support the same type of mechanics of a traditional university of several instructors teaching the same course. It would have to be that way to feed the ravenous appetite of BuPers to graduate so many.

Is it a given how long the course is?

I'd also like to know what Honor actually taught.

The wiki states that Henke and Harrington were roommates for three years. I would imagine that its a four year course that the two of them completed in three? Or even a four year course that was shortened to three, because of the ravenous need of BuPers, which would cut such courses as history. Though Honor wasn't short of instruction there by any meter stick.
Jonathan_S wrote:I'm almost certain Honor and Michelle were roommates while attending the 'undergrad' portion of the Acadamy, not when Honor returned between Hawkwing and Fearless to take the 'Crusher' course.

Incidentally the actual quote from SVW is "They'd been roommates at Saganami Island for over three T-years"; with 3 T-years being about 1.7 Manticoran years.

As to the length of the 'undergrad' program OBS says "two and a half years of Academy classes", and also "those forty-five endless months on Saganami Island were deliberately planned to leave even midshipmen without 'cats too few hours to do everything they had to do". That seems to track with about 2.5 Manticoran years, or 3.75 T-years; so they were probably roommates that entire time.

Though we know (from SoS, any IIRC some other places) that the 'undergrad' training gets compressed in wartime with snotties graduating early to feed the personnel demands of a war footing. But I don't remember how much that 45 months got compressed by.


However the ATC, aka the Crusher, is (we're told by AoV) a 6 T-month course. (A grueling one but "only" half a T-year)


Oh, and in addition to being commandant of the Advanced Tactical Course I seem to recall she taught a Tactics 101 Lecture over in Saganami Island Proper. (Yep, AoV confirms that)

You fingered lots of inconsistencies in my head. I assumed the ATC was post-grad study consisting of 3-4 more years, but I knew that Honor and Michele were roomies when she was pretty much a teenager so I couldn't explain the inconsistencies. Thanks.

Viewing Henke's and Honor's wiki profile, and assuming the wiki informant is sober this time, why does it list Henke as receiving the promotion to Ensign in 1879 PD and Honor in 1878? I think it was because of some incident in one of the side stories that made Harrington go noticed? I remember a palate, a careless driver and an accident and Honor taking charge? My memory. That isn't much of a difference, I know. I'd just think they'd both be promoted to Ensign about the same time.

At any rate, what interests me more is Michelle's lackluster posts prior to becoming Honor's CO aboard Nike. There was only HMS Perseus a dreadnaught and HMS Bryan Knight whatever type of ship that was.

Little wonder she worried about Honor pulling strings for her, because her career was boring. I understand that she sabotaged her own career from her paranoia regarding the "patronage game," but promotions and posts are different aren't they?

At any rate, what a waste of Crusher credentials until Honor decided to give her a swift kick in the pants. I guess I just feel a bit slighted that we were not treated to Michelle's skills at tactical as we were Honor's and Shannon's.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE C R U S H E R
Post by Annachie   » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:46 am

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Just putting forward possibilities Saber.
That and working around a couple of instructors who might have been there while Young was and wouldn't have a bar of North Hollow's diddling.

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