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Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse

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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by locarno24   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:00 am

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kzt wrote:https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2017/winter/feature/lot-what-known-about-pirates-not-true-and-lot-what-true-not-known

One colleague working on Atlantic families had noticed that locals in South Carolina seemed strangely unsurprised when pirates came ashore in the 1680s. Another colleague came upon a pirate who arrived in Newport in the 1690s, bought land, settled down, and became a customs official. This more-than-passing interest in pirates, as opposed to fathers, left me quite concerned. I had already taken my qualifying exams. I knew nothing about piracy. And since few scholars had written about piracy, I assumed it was not an important topic. Yet there it was, boarding the ship of my research agenda without permission.

Distraught, I cut a deal with my adviser that I would spend a month in the archives, examining government records and official correspondences to find out more. Sure enough, pirates were everywhere. But they were not who we thought they were. They were not anarchistic, antisocial maniacs. At least not in the seventeenth century. Like Moses Butterworth, many were welcome in colonial communities. They married local women, and bought land and livestock. Pirate James Brown even married the daughter of the governor of Pennsylvania and was appointed to the Pennsylvania House of Assembly.

...It was the higher reaches of colonial society, from governors to merchants, who supported global piracy, not some underclass or proto proletariat.


Henry Morgan ended up as a Governor as well if I recall.

But yes, piracy ultimately only works if you have somewhere to sell the stuff you steal and a safe port to repair and refit your ships. It may be a 'respectable businessman' who deals (at several removes) with carribean pirates, or a Nordic earl who quite openly pays for, builds and commands a raiding fleet, but warships and fighting men are expensive, and ultimately someone has to foot the bill.


Privateers have always been a cost-effective way for a nation to raise a navy. Drake & co are some of the most iconic examples - carrying the war against spain across the atlantic and (from the perspective of the british crown) paying for themselves in the process.
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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by Senior Chief   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:21 pm

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locarno24 wrote:
kzt wrote:https://www.neh.gov/humanities/2017/winter/feature/lot-what-known-about-pirates-not-true-and-lot-what-true-not-known

One colleague working on Atlantic families had noticed that locals in South Carolina seemed strangely unsurprised when pirates came ashore in the 1680s. Another colleague came upon a pirate who arrived in Newport in the 1690s, bought land, settled down, and became a customs official. This more-than-passing interest in pirates, as opposed to fathers, left me quite concerned. I had already taken my qualifying exams. I knew nothing about piracy. And since few scholars had written about piracy, I assumed it was not an important topic. Yet there it was, boarding the ship of my research agenda without permission.

Distraught, I cut a deal with my adviser that I would spend a month in the archives, examining government records and official correspondences to find out more. Sure enough, pirates were everywhere. But they were not who we thought they were. They were not anarchistic, antisocial maniacs. At least not in the seventeenth century. Like Moses Butterworth, many were welcome in colonial communities. They married local women, and bought land and livestock. Pirate James Brown even married the daughter of the governor of Pennsylvania and was appointed to the Pennsylvania House of Assembly.

...It was the higher reaches of colonial society, from governors to merchants, who supported global piracy, not some underclass or proto proletariat.


Henry Morgan ended up as a Governor as well if I recall.

But yes, piracy ultimately only works if you have somewhere to sell the stuff you steal and a safe port to repair and refit your ships. It may be a 'respectable businessman' who deals (at several removes) with carribean pirates, or a Nordic earl who quite openly pays for, builds and commands a raiding fleet, but warships and fighting men are expensive, and ultimately someone has to foot the bill.


Privateers have always been a cost-effective way for a nation to raise a navy. Drake & co are some of the most iconic examples - carrying the war against spain across the atlantic and (from the perspective of the british crown) paying for themselves in the process.


The book I mentioned in my previous post mentions all what you had to say but what I found interesting is that back then you hand the Laws of the Land and the Laws of the Sea, and Admiralty Laws. Three sets of laws that protected to some extent the pirate, the dealer of pirated goods, and those who bought said goods but did not know it. The queen bought shares in Drake's expeditions so just who was going to try before a court of law any piracy when the queen and her officials benefited from pirates. READ the book, very informative.

Also in the book it talked about the colonies in North America, three types. Piracy helped the economy of America because of the mismanagement of the owners of the colonies not investing in the colonies.

READ READ READ
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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:23 am

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As a Poli Sci major I happen tom recall the US constitution. Article I Section 8 is the enumerated powers granted to congress, Somewhere in the mess around the power to levee taxes is the issuance of Letters of Marque and Reprisal.

Seems Port Royal-Kingston was a huge pirate outpost. IIRC the British trading companies hired pirates to attack their rivals. And on a not-piracy note, the french Colony of Acadia was nominally under french law except when the fishing fleets came to the grand banks then Admiralty Law prevailed. Which is why we "Cajuns" never fought in the Frnch and Indian War, and refused to pledge Allegiance to the King of England. And got burned out of our farms and villages in the dead of winter.
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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by Daryl   » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:15 am

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Sounds somewhat like modern multinationals, raiding all over the world and bringing their loot back to a safe harbour.
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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by Senior Chief   » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:14 pm

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Daryl wrote:Sounds somewhat like modern multinationals, raiding all over the world and bringing their loot back to a safe harbour.


Good thinking... I wonder if any of the loot is buried on Oak Island.
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Re: Kind of like Piracy in the Honorverse
Post by Lord Skimper   » Thu Feb 09, 2017 4:22 am

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Edo Wiemken the Younger was a German Pirate and Baron of Jever Castle (Which is Pink).
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