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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:09 pm

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Now for either a blue ribbon of a question or a dunce cap, whichever comes first in merit.

What demon actually possessed Pavel Young to make him seek a career in the navy?

1) He was a complete and absolute coward, and showed no aptitude for the career whatsoever.

2) He didn't display any of the patriotic baggage that would normally accompany anyone else that would make them want to attempt to overcome their natural fear and cowardice to enlist. I saw absolutely no motivation either way that would serve to push Young to risk his body for the navy.

3) Why didn't he have his father use his influence to acquire a desk job, which although would be worse for the navy would seem to be better suited for Young?

4) How did he pass the rigorous physical training? He didn't strike me as the physical type. And I once thought that you had to become proficient in hand to hand combat but Wanderman proved that isn't so.

5) Then there is the Crusher. I cannot see him passing all aspects of the Crusher, although cronyism and nepotism would ease him pass some aspects of it, it seems that other areas would - where obvious to everyone else around him that he stinks - serve to dishearten them. But I cannot see him making it to that stage without naturally washing out. Unless he didn't have to "dress out" for "gym class" ever.

6) I simply do not see what would possess a coward of an aristocratic, gold-pressed spoon-fed loftily born arrogant, selfish above board, condescending coward of a brat to want to join a career that would place him in harm's way. Missiles are not prejudiced nor controlled by the North Hollow files.

7) Why didn't he see the military as being beneath him - a menial, baseborn job inappropriate for the loftily born?

Psychologists would kill each other contemplating Young or either end up on their own couches.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by drothgery   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:08 pm

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cthia wrote:Now for either a blue ribbon of a question or a dunce cap, whichever comes first in merit.

What demon actually possessed Pavel Young to make him seek a career in the navy?

Dmitri thought it would be good politics, and was the only person Pavel ever listened to.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:30 pm

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drothgery wrote:
cthia wrote:Now for either a blue ribbon of a question or a dunce cap, whichever comes first in merit.

What demon actually possessed Pavel Young to make him seek a career in the navy?

Dmitri thought it would be good politics, and was the only person Pavel ever listened to.


And until, well, the Battle of Basilisk, it should have been possible to pretty much avoid any serious exposure to combat, at least with peer combatants. Young probably spent a lot of time in "prestigious" assignments. Until he screwed up royally as captain, and ended up exiled to Basilisk.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Sun Feb 19, 2017 11:33 pm

cthia
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drothgery wrote:
cthia wrote:Now for either a blue ribbon of a question or a dunce cap, whichever comes first in merit.

What demon actually possessed Pavel Young to make him seek a career in the navy?

Dmitri thought it would be good politics, and was the only person Pavel ever listened to.
Fox2! wrote:And until, well, the Battle of Basilisk, it should have been possible to pretty much avoid any serious exposure to combat, at least with peer combatants. Young probably spent a lot of time in "prestigious" assignments. Until he screwed up royally as captain, and ended up exiled to Basilisk.


I just don't get that. If his son had any promise in him, any at all then it could have turned out good for politics. But Dmitri of all people knew his son was a phuck-up and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he couldn't have possibly made any kind of a mark in the navy except a negative one. Heck, no doubt it was planned from the beginning to assist him in his career advancement with the North Hollow files. Yet Dmitri knew, and Young knew those files couldn't follow him into battle.

Dmitri had to know that he was setting his son up for disaster. What happened was inevitable, even without the hard-on Young had for Honor that expedited matters. Did Dmitri end up getting anything at all out of it politically?

What exactly could have been the political worth of a son in the navy with an impotent uniform and rank, neither of which he earned?

I still think Young should have sought a desk job or Dmitri sought it for him. Take Stefan for instance, he was Minister of Trade.

Dmitri set Young and the family up for an inevitable fail. I just don't see any possible political worth from having a son like Young in the navy. I can't see any type of potential worth from it for that matter. There was no worth in Pavel Young.

In fact, there was no worth in the Young family at all. If ever the drunken wiki informant was actually sober while compiling data on the Youngs was here or the family was such a disaster that anyone can peg them even while in a drunken stupor...

Stefan acted as Pavel's second during the latter's fatal duel with Honor Harrington. In terror for his own life, Pavel yearned for some small gesture of comfort or affection from his brother, but Stefan remained aloof, outwardly observing the formal protocol of the dueling field, while inwardly vowing to carry on the Youngs' grudge against Harrington, regardless of what happened to Pavel. It was Stefan's behavior that led Pavel to the brief, belated epiphany that his entire family had been raised with the same nihilistic outlook; that they believed in nothing except serving their own advancement and gratification, and would leave behind no legacy of any value.


Yet it did remind me that I have this chilling feeling that Honor's troubles with the Youngs are anything but done. And Stefan is significantly smarter than Pavel.

Harrington, beware!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by pnakasone   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:21 am

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cthia wrote:I just don't get that. If his son had any promise in him, any at all then it could have turned out good for politics. But Dmitri of all people knew his son was a phuck-up and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he couldn't have possibly made any kind of a mark in the navy except a negative one. Heck, no doubt it was planned from the beginning to assist him in his career advancement with the North Hollow files. Yet Dmitri knew, and Young knew those files couldn't follow him into battle.

Dmitri had to know that he was setting his son up for disaster. What happened was inevitable, even without the hard-on Young had for Honor that expedited matters. Did Dmitri end up getting anything at all out of it politically?

What exactly could have been the political worth of a son in the navy with an impotent uniform and rank, neither of which he earned?

I still think Young should have sought a desk job or Dmitri sought it for him. Take Stefan for instance, he was Minister of Trade.

Dmitri set Young and the family up for an inevitable fail. I just don't see any possible political worth from having a son like Young in the navy. I can't see any type of potential worth from it for that matter. There was no worth in Pavel Young.

In fact, there was no worth in the Young family at all. If ever the drunken wiki informant was actually sober while compiling data on the Youngs was here or the family was such a disaster that anyone can peg them even while in a drunken stupor...


Yet it did remind me that I have this chilling feeling that Honor's troubles with the Youngs are anything but done. And Stefan is significantly smarter than Pavel.

Harrington, beware!



I think Pavel Yong never really consider war with PRH a real possibility. He probably just thought he could just coast to the flag ranks on seniority based promotions.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:30 am

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pnakasone wrote:
cthia wrote:I just don't get that. If his son had any promise in him, any at all then it could have turned out good for politics. But Dmitri of all people knew his son was a phuck-up and knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that he couldn't have possibly made any kind of a mark in the navy except a negative one. Heck, no doubt it was planned from the beginning to assist him in his career advancement with the North Hollow files. Yet Dmitri knew, and Young knew those files couldn't follow him into battle.

Dmitri had to know that he was setting his son up for disaster. What happened was inevitable, even without the hard-on Young had for Honor that expedited matters. Did Dmitri end up getting anything at all out of it politically?

What exactly could have been the political worth of a son in the navy with an impotent uniform and rank, neither of which he earned?

I still think Young should have sought a desk job or Dmitri sought it for him. Take Stefan for instance, he was Minister of Trade.

Dmitri set Young and the family up for an inevitable fail. I just don't see any possible political worth from having a son like Young in the navy. I can't see any type of potential worth from it for that matter. There was no worth in Pavel Young.

In fact, there was no worth in the Young family at all. If ever the drunken wiki informant was actually sober while compiling data on the Youngs was here or the family was such a disaster that anyone can peg them even while in a drunken stupor...


Yet it did remind me that I have this chilling feeling that Honor's troubles with the Youngs are anything but done. And Stefan is significantly smarter than Pavel.

Harrington, beware!



I think Pavel Yong never really consider war with PRH a real possibility. He probably just thought he could just coast to the flag ranks on seniority based promotions.


Exactly. Do a couple of Silesian tours with a heavy cruiser, pop a few pirates, maybe get Mentioned in Dispatches, especially if he could write them himself. Five or ten years, he makes Commodore, even if he never sets foot on a flag deck he retires eventually as an Admiral. His father is in ill health, sooner or later he'll be able to take up his seat in the Lords, and lord it over the lower classes as the God he doesn't believe in intended.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:34 am

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cthia wrote:
Yet it did remind me that I have this chilling feeling that Honor's troubles with the Youngs are anything but done. And Stefan is significantly smarter than Pavel.

Harrington, beware!


The potential for the Young's to continue to make trouble for Honor disappeared along with the North Hollow files and a certain ex-slave.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:43 am

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cthia wrote:Now for either a blue ribbon of a question or a dunce cap, whichever comes first in merit.

What demon actually possessed Pavel Young to make him seek a career in the navy?



1. It provided a place to spend his time waiting for his father to die, so he could inherit the seat in Lords

2. It would provide the foundation for him to build a platform as a "Naval Expert" and be able to steer graft into the CA (and North Hollow) coffers.

3. It provided large numbers of menials to bow and scrape before so magnificent a presence, in both his social status and his military rank. Remember that a ship commander, especially on a distant station, is the next thing to God and the Sovereign as far as his crew is concerned.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by munroburton   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:42 am

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Fox2! wrote:
cthia wrote:
Yet it did remind me that I have this chilling feeling that Honor's troubles with the Youngs are anything but done. And Stefan is significantly smarter than Pavel.

Harrington, beware!


The potential for the Young's to continue to make trouble for Honor disappeared along with the North Hollow files and a certain ex-slave.


Stefan was in hiding after the North Hollow files blew up. IIRC, Anton Zilwicki told Cathy that quite a few people were looking to settle scores, with the files out of the way.

I was always a little surprised he never ended up in the dock with High Ridge, as well as becoming cellmates afterwards.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by pnakasone   » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:41 pm

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cthia wrote:5) Then there is the Crusher. I cannot see him passing all aspects of the Crusher, although cronyism and nepotism would ease him pass some aspects of it, it seems that other areas would - where obvious to everyone else around him that he stinks - serve to dishearten them. But I cannot see him making it to that stage without naturally washing out. Unless he didn't have to "dress out" for "gym class" ever.

Psychologists would kill each other contemplating Young or either end up on their own couches.


One problem with the Crusher is that it is not a genuine life or death situation. No matter how hard they try some people will get threw such rigorous testing only to fail in the heat of battle.
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