Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:

cthia wrote:Are Honor and Nimitz the oldest living cat-human bond? Do they predate Beth and Ariel?

Chapter 4 of _Honor among Enemies_ introduces Admiral Georgides (then commander of space station Vulcan) and his companion Odysseus. They had bonded more than 50 years before, which would had been around Honor's birth date, give or take a couple of years.

Thanks for this post Robert. I was certain enough that I'd have bet that our two most famous bonded pairs were the oldest. Especially considering the fact that I read somewhere that Honor's family contains the most instances of bonded pairs? Something nice in the makeup of Meyerdahl beta modification that tickles a cats tastebuds.

Jonathan's sentiment also makes sense and is intuitive to boot. Forestry rangers are natural animal lovers to the core and imagine would give them somewhat of an edge.

The E wrote:

cthia wrote:Are Honor and Nimitz the oldest living cat-human bond? Do they predate Beth and Ariel?

They are the oldest pair mentioned in the novels (Elizabeth was adopted in 1880, Honor sometime in the 1860s). That does not, however, preclude the existence of people who got adopted earlier who are still alive in 1920 PD (this is quite easily the case, given how long prolong has been widely available in the Star Kingdom; the procedure was first introduced in 1829, after all).

Theemile wrote:To add, Honor's parents generation all had prolong, so chances are someone in that generation was also mated. For-ex, Monroe, who currently is bonded to Prince Consort Justin, was originally bonded to King Rodger, and was in the process of suiciding (by just stopping living) when he and Justin bonded while fighting off King Rodger's assassin.

(BTW, having the former King's Treecat snap back from the dead and bond with you, pretty much dashes all concerns that you are not right for the royal heir....)

My bold to call attention.

Nice thought! Something runs in the family?

cthia wrote:Are Honor and Nimitz the oldest living cat-human bond? Do they predate Beth and Ariel?

I think Stephanie and Lionheart are so far the longest at almost a century. Also Odysseus and Aristophones might be slightly longer than Nimitz and Honor.

saber964 wrote:

cthia wrote:Are Honor and Nimitz the oldest living cat-human bond? Do they predate Beth and Ariel?

I think Stephanie and Lionheart are so far the longest at almost a century. Also Odysseus and Aristophones might be slightly longer than Nimitz and Honor.

If you are talking about the modern Honorverse, Stephanie and Lionheart are no longer living (Stephanie was the very first human adoption bond by a treecat--Lionheart).

How to find your Soul Mate? Darn lucky Cats!

Humans use subtle body chemistry to do it. We use hormones, pheromones, even "Hell and moans" to choose a mate. We oftentimes get it incorrectly. Oftentimes we always get it incorrectly.

I wonder if a human's mindglow can be so nice, contain all of the right ingredients, all of the right stuff, that it... it... it literally sings to a cat. It has a wonderful beat. A wonderful cadence. The music truly hath charm to soothe the savage Cat. It... it... it is like a number one hit. And the treecat is like...

<I gotta get me some of that mind-glow!>

It is called being in tune. Attuned. All in all, I'd wager a human's mindglow tends to sing to a 'Cat. Some in tune. Some so in tune that the two become instantly attuned and attached at the hip - hop. LOL

Some, like Pavel Young's being totally discordant and nerve wracking like a high pitched sound that beckons to be silenced.

I imagine that Honor's mindglow sounded something like someone dancing on a cloud.

Anyone care to give me a tune that most conjures the emotion in Nimitz when he "heard" Honor's mindglow? Remember, she is dancing on a cloud in Nimitz' head.


What did Ariel hear that resembled a Soul of Steel?

cthia wrote: Tester knows that Young deserved Honor putting her foot so far up his arse that a brain surgeon was needed to get it out. Indeed it was wrong what Young did. But those last few blows was wrong that Honor delivered, she hurt Young unnecessarily.* She had a human right to protect herself even against an officer, but the last few blows were unwarranted and were done for the wrong human emotion of vengeance -- regardless of how much an onlooker with all of the facts agree with her. For Honor to withhold the confrontation from Commandant Hartley made her a hypocrite on some level and tarnished her 'Little Miss Right' self-made image of herself. Made her somewhat as guilty as bending the rules as Hauptman's freighters. Didn't she break some regs exacting vengeance with the last few blows? Isn't it against the regs to purposefully injure a fellow officer? If Young hadn't been such a wussy and afraid of embarrassment he could have went to an "improper authority" other than Hartley -- someone in the good ole boy network and told a completely different story. One which included a spurned woman because he didn't return her affections and that he simply wanted sex and she went berserk and used undue force.** Which is probably what he would have cried if Honor had reported it.

zizarvexis wrote:That story of she wanted to have sex, but Honor freaked out and attacked me for turning her down has the small problem of it was happening in the gym's shower, which I would expect was the women's shower as she was surprised to see him there. That shoots up a big flare, for what was Young doing in the shower for him to turn her down and her to attack him over it. Young didn't remember anything after the beat down, his friends had to help him to the infirmary and they came up with the fell down story.

The gym's showers would not have raised any flags at all if Young was the kind of man I think he was. The claim that Harrington was surprised to see him there was simply hearsay. Her word against his - odds which even she didn't think she could win.

One thing we must not forget regarding Young—one thing in which he demands respect, even earns it. Though he constantly labeled Honor as such, Young himself was anything but a lowly baseborn entity. He was accustomed to all of the privileges that such a lordly birth entails and was an affluent ladies man possessing benefit of certain files. Young moved in lofty social circles. As such, he was accustomed to having all sorts of women in all sorts of circumstances up to and including showers - showers of country clubs, college dorms, businesses, etc.

However, the fact that that sort of thing goes on in showers would not have been a fact and/or experience exclusive only to Young, but to everyone in his social circle. Or even to he who is simply a ladies man.

When I was a college student, it was an acceptable and fashionable thing to shower in the open coed-showers on coed floors of coed dorms. Thing is, it went on in most all of the other "exclusively female" showers as well. Lots of sex happens and will continue to happen in communal showers. Is happening now. Will happen tomorrow.

And why not? Showers are a place that affords an opportunity to get dirty while getting clean. Or getting clean while getting dirty. Half-full... half-empty?... 'sigh.'

I am absolutely certain that Saganami Island is no different.


Young's likely version after once again reaching equilibrium - after a few stiches to his ass and ego...

"Harrington and I became intimate. We hid our ... torrid affair amidst an entertaining display of taunts and jeers at each other solely for the benefit of onlookers. In reality we were having mutual and beneficial... torrid sex. Harrington ultimately became enamored in the end, completely at odds with our - how shall I say, little arrangement and mutual agreement.

I suppose I should have known the frayed stitching in that particular plan would hinge on something as simple as the integrity of such a baseborn birth.

And to think I was simply throwing the poor dog a bone.

It is obvious after the fact that she fell in love and thought she'd hitch her post on the coattail of a Young. Only after I sorted out such an appalling notion did she become belligerent and went as ballistic as a scorned ninny. As if a Young could be in any way socially interested in such a baseborn vagrant of life.

My concern for the navy and its regs prevented me from engaging her and possibly doing harm to another officer. Because of my selfless motives -- and I admit a moment of weakness amidst echoes of intimacy -- caused me to let down my guard and underestimate the provoked Spinxian strength of a scorned and spurned baseborn bitch!

I mean to have her flogged!," really laying it on thick.

Please note that this speech would have been delivered in dramatic fashion to someone in the good ole boy network known to be supportive, and even worse... just as jaded an aristocrat as a Pavel Young.

.

In fact, it is the resounding truth in these very facts that gave Young the balls, nerve and audacity to think he could get away with it in the first place. Young had lived that life for so long without barriers that it became part of his brainwashed privileged mentality. The part "becomes him." He truly saw no limitation to what he could do. He was above certain laws meant only for the lowly born and underprivileged -- the base born.

Privilege hath its own reward. It demands without asking.

cthia wrote:In fact, it is the resounding truth in these very facts that gave Young the balls, nerve and audacity to think he could get away with it in the first place. Young had lived that life for so long without barriers that it became part of his brainwashed privileged mentality. The part "becomes him." He truly saw no limitation to what he could do. He was above certain laws meant only for the lowly born and underprivileged -- the base born.

Privilege hath its own reward. It demands without asking.

Sad thing is how many other jaded aristocratic fish in the sea would also swallow that load of bull... "hook—@sinker."

If Honor had gone to Michelle and discussed her ordeal, Michelle would have talked her into coming clean. Had Young attempted that same crap with Michelle, there is no way he would have gotten away with it... and I imagine the results would have been as equally disastrous for Young had Michelle been privy to her best friend having been assaulted.

Eventually, Michelle would have gotten through to Honor that it was her sworn duty to report what amounts to an appalling criminal act by such a scum of an officer—that she was not doing the navy any favors by letting Young "escape" his just dessert. Manticore was not a 'forsake or leave a man behind' for the betterment of the non-deserving navy, kind of navy. Well... for the most part.

Thing is, I would have thought that Honor was close enough to Michelle that she could very certainly confide in her on something like an attempted rape. In the Honorverse, rape does not carry a stigma for the victim but for the rapist. Moreso, if that rapist is an officer.

Honor and Michelle were fairly close, they enjoyed lots of frolicking as friends and even got in a little trouble together. They had an outgoing friendship. It is little wonder that Honor did not socially withdraw after the assault. Perhaps she did. Perhaps that has much to do with why her friendships/social life didn't blossom after becoming the best friend of someone fifth in line for succession. As one would intuitively expect one's friendships and or offers of friendships (genuine or no) to change after that fact.

I know that Honor, if we're honest with ourselves, was intimidated by Young's lofty birth. He was a Lord. Naturally, Honor felt inferior to Young. He was certainly successful in intimidating her as was his wont.

BUT...

What I don't understand is that Honor's best friend was fifth in line for succession. The Queen of Manticore was her Aunt. Honor was the best friend of the niece of the Queen of Manticore. How could she have been intimidated by Young? Talk about name dropping, Honor was in good company - the best. The average person would have felt they had a little pull being Michelle's best friend.

All of this really peaks my interest to the makings of Young's character -- because still being able to pull off being intimidating to Honor under the circumstances is impressive. During the time of talk about a movie I was really excited about the idea of "some" actor portraying Young's character and nailing it. A good pratagonist oftentimes carries a storyline, fuels it, even determines its appeal. Best supporting actor/protagonist. Young exuded general confidence - though false. It was a reflection and measure of his social status and confidence - which was real. I imagine he was a cross between a Houseman and a High Ridge. Point being, Young had to be the quintessential jaded privileged aristocrat born with his head wedged far up his own ass -- the type of aristocrat that others who wore the title well, loathed, like Terekov?, iirc. Aristocrats like Young gave the title a bad name.

The more I think about it, had Young been successful in raping Honor I can imagine Honor still not being able to come clean. What would have been different in her thinking? Even if Young had simply penetrated her for a certain amount of seconds, Honor would not have told. And more importantly, how would the fact that Young had successfully raped or penetrated her have changed the dynamics between the two? Would that fact have placed Honor's internal reactor at a higher nominal?

How would the relative dynamics have changed for Nimitz?

In fact, had Honor recovered after being successfully penetrated and then the physical engagement occurred, Honor may have become a murderer -- second degree... temporary insanity.

Bracketing all of that momentarily, I'd really like to know how a successful rape would have affected Nimitz (effected Nimitz as well, LOL). In that case, Young would not have become simply an enemy that attempted to do physical harm, he would have become an enemy that DID do physical harm.

<I don't know why he did what he did. I do know he won't get a chance to do it again>

Remember, when a treecat is bonded to a human and the human dies, most likely the treecat dies as well. Treecats can not handle such a severe severence of the bonds of love. Treecats die of heartbreak. So in that, Nimitz would have had to defend himself, because in essence a successful attack would have occurred against his own life as well. It would have been self preservation. Is it in error to think that if you attack one half of a bonded equation, in essence you also attack the whole?

<Things have changed for me now, Honor. You know what they say about treecat enemies>

"Yes, two types. They are either living or dead? How has that changed?"

<Two types still. Either wearing Pavel Young's uniform or not>

cthia wrote:If Honor had gone to Michelle and discussed her ordeal, Michelle would have talked her into coming clean. Had Young attempted that same crap with Michelle, there is no way he would have gotten away with it... and I imagine the results would have been as equally disastrous for Young had Michelle been privy to her best friend having been assaulted.

Eventually, Michelle would have gotten through to Honor that it was her sworn duty to report what amounts to an appalling criminal act by such a scum of an officer—that she was not doing the navy any favors by letting Young "escape" his just dessert. Manticore was not a 'forsake or leave a man behind' for the betterment of the non-deserving navy, kind of navy. Well... for the most part.

Thing is, I would have thought that Honor was close enough to Michelle that she could very certainly confide in her on something like an attempted rape. In the Honorverse, rape does not carry a stigma for the victim but for the rapist. Moreso, if that rapist is an officer.

Honor and Michelle were fairly close, they enjoyed lots of frolicking as friends and even got in a little trouble together. They had an outgoing friendship. It is little wonder that Honor did not socially withdraw after the assault. Perhaps she did. Perhaps that has much to do with why her friendships/social life didn't blossom after becoming the best friend of someone fifth in line for succession. As one would intuitively expect one's friendships and or offers of friendships (genuine or no) to change after that fact.

I know that Honor, if we're honest with ourselves, was intimidated by Young's lofty birth. He was a Lord. Naturally, Honor felt inferior to Young. He was certainly successful in intimidating her as was his wont.

BUT...

What I don't understand is that Honor's best friend was fifth in line for succession. The Queen of Manticore was her Aunt. Honor was the best friend of the niece of the Queen of Manticore. How could she have been intimidated by Young? Talk about name dropping, Honor was in good company - the best. The average person would have felt they had a little pull being Michelle's best friend.

All of this really peaks my interest to the makings of Young's character -- because still being able to pull off being intimidating to Honor under the circumstances is impressive. During the time of talk about a movie I was really excited about the idea of "some" actor portraying Young's character and nailing it. A good pratagonist oftentimes carries a storyline, fuels it, even determines its appeal. Best supporting actor/protagonist. Young exuded general confidence - though false. It was a reflection and measure of his social status and confidence - which was real. I imagine he was a cross between a Houseman and a High Ridge. Point being, Young had to be the quintessential jaded privileged aristocrat born with his head wedged far up his own ass -- the type of aristocrat that others who wore the title well, loathed, like Terekov?, iirc. Aristocrats like Young gave the title a bad name.

The more I think about it, had Young been successful in raping Honor I can imagine Honor still not being able to come clean. What would have been different in her thinking? Even if Young had simply penetrated her for a certain amount of seconds, Honor would not have told. And more importantly, how would the fact that Young had successfully raped or penetrated her have changed the dynamics between the two? Would that fact have placed Honor's internal reactor at a higher nominal?

How would the relative dynamics have changed for Nimitz?

In fact, had Honor recovered after being successfully penetrated and then the physical engagement occurred, Honor may have become a murderer -- second degree... temporary insanity.

Bracketing all of that momentarily, I'd really like to know how a successful rape would have affected Nimitz (effected Nimitz as well, LOL). In that case, Young would not have become simply an enemy that attempted to do physical harm, he would have become an enemy that DID do physical harm.

<I don't know why he did what he did. I do know he won't get a chance to do it again>

Remember, when a treecat is bonded to a human and the human dies, most likely the treecat dies as well. Treecats can not handle such a severe severence of the bonds of love. Treecats die of heartbreak. So in that, Nimitz would have had to defend himself, because in essence a successful attack would have occurred against his own life as well. It would have been self preservation. Is it in error to think that if you attack one half of a bonded equation, in essence you also attack the whole?

<Things have changed for me now, Honor. You know what they say about treecat enemies>

"Yes, two types. They are either living or dead? How has that changed?"

<Two types still. Either wearing Pavel Young's uniform or not>

Slight problem, QEIII was not Queen at the time it was KRIII and Elizabeth and Michelle are first cousins.