Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

Fox2! wrote:
If Harrington pere et mere had decided to stay on Beowulf, Honor would have been groomed for a career that would probably have put her on the BoD.

In "Let's Dance", they pretty much promised her that the BSDF would be glad to offer her a commission if the RMN canned her over that.

Fox2! wrote:A "mere Yeoman-born female" with ties to one of the meritocracy of Beowulf's most meritocratic families?

All the more reason for Pavel to be offended by her rejection; everyone knows what perverts those Beowulfers are! It's not like Beowulfers were actual "aristocrats," after all.

Fox2! wrote:

John Prigent wrote:I seem to recall that Young wanted to humiliate Honor because she had not bowed and scraped to his 'superior' status and had in fact turned him down flat when he first approached her. A mere Yeoman-born female not wanting sex with an aristocrat, she had to be put in her place!

Cheers, John

A "mere Yeoman-born female" with ties to one of the meritocracy of Beowulf's most meritocratic families? A family with several members on the Planetary Board of Directors? (SNIP)

That is assuming that Pavel Young even knew that Honor's mother's birth name was Allison Carmena Elena Inez Regina Benton-Ramirez y Chou. And, for that matter, that he knew what that meant on Beowulf.

Weird Harold wrote:

Fox2! wrote:A "mere Yeoman-born female" with ties to one of the meritocracy of Beowulf's most meritocratic families?

All the more reason for Pavel to be offended by her rejection; everyone knows what perverts those Beowulfers are! It's not like Beowulfers were actual "aristocrats," after all.

Yes. I forgot that Ally could set off even a blasé Manticoran, never mind a Grayson, with her wicked and salacious ways. She's almost as bad as Ginnie Usher.

Had a few friends over and a funny conversation happened at dinner last night. We had been discussing books we'd like to see make it to the big screen. To make a long story short, one of my male friends said he'd never be in a relationship where he didn't wear the pants.

"Oh?" Immediately asked one of our female friends."

"Absolutely not." Sticking to his guns.

"Then you'd probably better forget about that love affair you've got with Honor Harrington. Who do you think would really wear the pants in that relationship? She'd pick all of the movies for sure because she wouldn't be interested in the garbage you like. And forget about choosing the restaurant. You surely can't be the one to choose where she can adequately fill up her tank. And the meal isn't over until Honor says it's over you wimp. You'll be playing with your uneaten salad while she's waiting on the ninth course."

Laughter from everyone then we all join in.


"She can probably eat free at many restaurants. Several offer Montana steaks that are free if you can eat the whole thing. Honor warms up on it!"

"You also better rethink that thing you've got against hired help. As busy as Honor is, somebody has to do the cooking. You'll be the one running the kitchen and barefoot and pregnant!"

"She'll turn him into MacGuiness!"


"Uh huh, and without being genetically modified do you really think you can feed her sexual appetite? You'll probably frustrate her to the point that she'd toss you in the cultivator to cultivate some sexual prowess."

" "

"You'll haul ass out of her quarters so fast even Nimitz will die laughing."

<Another one bites the dust!>

Maybe I better rethink my own crush on her.

John Prigent wrote:I seem to recall that Young wanted to humiliate Honor because she had not bowed and scraped to his 'superior' status and had in fact turned him down flat when he first approached her. A mere Yeoman-born female not wanting sex with an aristocrat, she had to be put in her place!

Cheers, John

Absolutely correct. It was even in the textev that kizarvexis included upstream that I caught on a reread. My bad. I knew it had to be something personal for him to go off his rocker like so.

But!

That still does not account for his initial interest. She was unattractive and she was a gawky horse. Unattractive and not sexy. Why would a Lord want to ask someone like that out, when he is sleeping with all manner of attractive and sexy women? That is referred to as slumming. Which is above a Lord.

He wasn't interested in her brain, because he didn't have one himself.

cthia wrote:

John Prigent wrote:I seem to recall that Young wanted to humiliate Honor because she had not bowed and scraped to his 'superior' status and had in fact turned him down flat when he first approached her. A mere Yeoman-born female not wanting sex with an aristocrat, she had to be put in her place!

Cheers, John

Absolutely correct. It was even in the textev that kizarvexis included upstream that I caught on a reread. My bad. I knew it had to be something personal for him to go off his rocker like so.

But!

That still does not account for his initial interest. She was unattractive and she was a gawky horse. Unattractive and not sexy. Why would a Lord want to ask someone like that out, when he is sleeping with all manner of attractive and sexy women? That is referred to as slumming. Which is above a Lord.

He wasn't interested in her brain, because he didn't have one himself.

He had a brain, he just wasn't using it because it was in his small head

cthia wrote:

John Prigent wrote:I seem to recall that Young wanted to humiliate Honor because she had not bowed and scraped to his 'superior' status and had in fact turned him down flat when he first approached her. A mere Yeoman-born female not wanting sex with an aristocrat, she had to be put in her place!

Cheers, John

Absolutely correct. It was even in the textev that kizarvexis included upstream that I caught on a reread. My bad. I knew it had to be something personal for him to go off his rocker like so.

But!

That still does not account for his initial interest. She was unattractive and she was a gawky horse. Unattractive and not sexy. Why would a Lord want to ask someone like that out, when he is sleeping with all manner of attractive and sexy women? That is referred to as slumming. Which is above a Lord.

He wasn't interested in her brain, because he didn't have one himself.

saber964 wrote:He had a brain, he just wasn't using it because it was in his small head

I must be related to Pavel Young because you beat me to the punch, Honor. LOL

Isn't that the truth. Reminds me of a warning my mother gave me when I was a young and horny teenager.

"Be careful not to be over driven and led by the wrong head -- the one in your pants can't see where it's going or figure out where it's been."

Oh, the wisdom of a loving mother. Which reminds me. Perhaps Pavel's problems in certain areas stemmed from a lack of a mother's instruction. Was there ever any mention of the whereabouts of Young's mother?

Fox2! wrote:

robert132 wrote:
Obviously Pavel didn't pay attention in the classes which discussed Sun Tzu's teachings. He ignored the rule that says "Know your enemy (or target.) Learn all you can about him (her.)" If he had he would either -

a) have come at the problem (Honor) differently, or
b) said "screw it, it ain't worth the danger of busted bones and rearranged teeth to moi."

Very poor "Intelligence Preparation of the Battlespace"

-Heavy worlder
"Genie" modified for that, and similar, heavy world environment
-Unarmed combat demonstration team trained under Saganami Marines

Of course she's going to throw his over-bred body around the shower like a 'cat going through a rabbit den. Plus she's naked and has short hair, so there's nothing for him to catch hold of. Even if he does manage to grab something, she's wet and soapy, so she's going to slide right out of his grasp.

Of course, he did the same thing what, thirty years later, along with the late unlamented Denver Sumervale, in not realizing that she had spent the entire time returning to Manticore from Grayson in the ship's range, probably using up an entire year's allotment of 10 mm. Never mind Uncle Jacque and his friends from SCA.

robert132 wrote:One quick note - I don't think Pavel would have had foreknowledge of her being a "genie." While it would probably be in her medical records I don't think it would be common knowledge except to key members of the Academy staff.

Rehashing at the expense of being redumbdant, you most certainly are correct that he didn't know. What non modified Manticoran would attempt to -- not just take on, but! -- try and rape a known Sphinxian with his bare hands?

It is just his lamed brainless that he didn't know what he should have known that stumps me because there were just so many hints. But Young was simply an all around slacker, so that could explain his overall incompetence. Besides, he had everything he needed from life, a fortuitous birth and supplemented by certain files, so there was no need for any other concerns. Other than that, there were simply too many hints for an active brain to miss. Paired with the intuitive differences in the Honorverse that will become clear below.

1) Isn't there such a thing as required reading at the Academy? Being familiar with various systems, their planets and their denizens would be a prerequisite.

2) Treecat riding atop. ISTR textev that a treecat's mass is not insignificant and ferrying them around on your shoulders is not an insignificant feat.

3) Wouldn't those almond eyes alert you to something?

4) Didn't everyone eat at the mess hall? Honor's appetite would have been legendary and should have fueled many a conversation.

I have an acquaintance whose father was a Master Sergeant in the marines and is legendary for having punched a cook in the mess hall because he came thru the line and asked for a dozen eggs. The cook laughed and gave him a regular serving. This master sergeant looked like he was from San Martin, trust me. Needless to say he had no problem getting a dozen eggs on subsequent visits. That incident occurred over sixty years ago and is still circulating.

5) Her hand to hand combat skills also would have been widely known at the academy.

6) I would imagine that basic information was available to all students about most students, as it is now at universities. The student registry.

7) Young said himself that "she liked to turn the grav plates up." I'll surely accept the possibility that a few others who are not heavy worlders might seek that kind of a workout in an attempt to attain tip top condition but it is difficult to buy that it doesn't alert everyone of probable enhancement.

8) It is widely known in the Honorverse that there are genies and it would also be widely known what genies can do. Grant you three wishes...

• Beat your ass.
• Kick your ass.
• Stomp your ass.

So in the Honorverse, it seems it would be common knowledge amongst rapists that it would behoove them to be careful to pick their targets wisely knowing that many women could end up turning the tables and raping them instead. Putting a foot deeply up someone's ass could certainly be characterized as anal rape. Sodomy of the brutal kind.

I don't know what the percentage of genies there are in the Honorverse, but it seems that navies would share a very big slice of that pie. I also imagine that rape has seen so much of its share of those turned tables in the Honorverse that any would be rapist would just know to tread lightly. How many times does the Manticore Times have to print this before it sinks into the psyche?

Extry! Extry! Read all about it!
Rampant rapist found brutally raped.
Analyzed with a Sphinxian foot in his ass.

She being a genie or not is irrelevant. Knowing that she is a yeoman from Sphinx indicates that she is a native of the planet, so her body is completely conditioned to live normally in 1.3+ G. So she automatically has 1/3 more muscle mass than someone otherwise identical from Earth it Manticore.

In other words, a "typical" 120 lb(earth) woman from Sphinx would weigh 160 pounds on Sphinx, and probably have the same physical strength as a 160 lb man from Manticore, just with less mass to put behind their punch.

A Genie would probably have even more strength, and most importantly, not look like she was a weightlifter, like may heavyworlders look.