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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Sun May 21, 2017 11:59 am

cthia
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Theemile wrote:She being a genie or not is irrelevant. Knowing that she is a yeoman from Sphinx indicates that she is a native of the planet, so her body is completely conditioned to live normally in 1.3+ G. So she automatically has 1/3 more muscle mass than someone otherwise identical from Earth it Manticore.

In other words, a "typical" 120 lb(earth) woman from Sphinx would weigh 160 pounds on Sphinx, and probably have the same physical strength as a 160 lb man from Manticore, just with less mass to put behind their punch.

A Genie would probably have even more strength, and most importantly, not look like she was a weightlifter, like may heavyworlders look.


I don't doubt the veracity of your comment, it is simply that the facts in my brain have become even more scrambled since I've gotten married. Too much contact with my headboard as a result of being on the bottom. Hey, I'm all for women's rights! LOL

Per my jumbled memory, I thought that that's what being a genie meant. That you are conditioned to live on heavy worlds and the harsh environment. Obviously my memory fails me and I am in error? Would someone kindly shed light on my darkness lest I have to go looking for half-a-needle in the Pearls haystack.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Sun May 21, 2017 12:09 pm

cthia
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John Prigent wrote:I seem to recall that Young wanted to humiliate Honor because she had not bowed and scraped to his 'superior' status and had in fact turned him down flat when he first approached her. A mere Yeoman-born female not wanting sex with an aristocrat, she had to be put in her place!

Cheers, John


And of course adding insult to injury err injuries is what exacerbated his angst, snipped from kizarvexis' textev upstream.

Honor was grateful for his silence, for her brain was trying to grapple with too many thoughts at once. Memories of the Academy dominated them, especially of the terrible scene in the commandant's office as Mr. Midshipman Lord Young, broken ribs and collarbone still immobilized, split lips still puffed and distended, one blackened eye swollen almost shut, was required to apologize to Ms. Midshipman Harrington for his "inappropriate language and actions" before the official reprimand for "conduct unbecoming" went into his file.


What about having to face a woman who did this to you, especially while the injuries are still fresh. Can't get any more embarrassing than that. Wait, sure it can. Everyone else will see you like that as well and would surely have heard the rumors -- and rumors are FTL.

As far as peace from Young, Honor is doomed.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Sun May 21, 2017 12:31 pm

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Upon reflection, perhaps Young having had Honor's Sphinxian foot wedged far up his backside and receiving all of those injuries on display for all the world to see, piled onto being rejected by a mere gawking horse of a Yeomen is responsible for his probable low scores at the Isle and his "nowhere-in-hellness" passed the Crusher. Quickheal is ineffective on the ego.

Depending on the point in his matriculation, Young may have socially withdrawn and physically missed many classes before hand to hand combat training. And Sag Isle undergrad courses would have been prereqs for the Crusher.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by munroburton   » Sun May 21, 2017 1:22 pm

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cthia wrote:Per my jumbled memory, I thought that that's what being a genie meant. That you are conditioned to live on heavy worlds and the harsh environment. Obviously my memory fails me and I am in error? Would someone kindly shed light on my darkness lest I have to go looking for half-a-needle in the Pearls haystack.


Genies are those who have been genetically engineered or whose ancestors have. It's true that heavyworld gene mods probably make up a substantial percentage, but several examples of non-heavyworld genies come to mind: Graysons(their mod focuses on adapting to heavy metals, not higher gravity) and various Mesan slave and star lines. There are probably gene mods for low-g and zero-g environments.

One notable example of a heavyworld colony without any gene mods is Ndebele, Thandi Palane's homeworld. Due to extended isolation and the extreme environment, Ndebele's natives are at the "edge of human physical performance." However, the lack of gene mods meant they are stuck with a high child mortality rate(e.g. babies born without the necessary genes to survive simply die off - as Ndebele's colonizers apparently intended :().

Indeed, that process worked so well(in that it produced a population of super atheletes) on Ndebele that Manpower at some time carried out raids in order to obtain genetic material for creating heavy labour slaves.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by kzt   » Sun May 21, 2017 4:35 pm

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Theemile wrote:She being a genie or not is irrelevant. Knowing that she is a yeoman from Sphinx indicates that she is a native of the planet, so her body is completely conditioned to live normally in 1.3+ G. So she automatically has 1/3 more muscle mass than someone otherwise identical from Earth it Manticore.

In other words, a "typical" 120 lb(earth) woman from Sphinx would weigh 160 pounds on Sphinx, and probably have the same physical strength as a 160 lb man from Manticore, just with less mass to put behind their punch.

No. A woman who isn't in a work of fiction has less muscle and more fat than a man of the same weight and condition. And the man is almost certainly stronger than a woman with the same muscle mass, as guys are better at motor unit recruitment than women are. Wen and woman are different in more ways than socialization.

This is why you don't match men and woman weight lifters and why there are men's and woman's divisions in sports. The multiple examples of woman's national soccer team being beaten by a middle school boys team is another example. Life isn't fair, but it is what it is.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6072/aust ... stigiacomo

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a- ... scrimmage/
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Theemile   » Sun May 21, 2017 7:08 pm

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kzt wrote:
Theemile wrote:She being a genie or not is irrelevant. Knowing that she is a yeoman from Sphinx indicates that she is a native of the planet, so her body is completely conditioned to live normally in 1.3+ G. So she automatically has 1/3 more muscle mass than someone otherwise identical from Earth it Manticore.

In other words, a "typical" 120 lb(earth) woman from Sphinx would weigh 160 pounds on Sphinx, and probably have the same physical strength as a 160 lb man from Manticore, just with less mass to put behind their punch.

No. A woman who isn't in a work of fiction has less muscle and more fat than a man of the same weight and condition. And the man is almost certainly stronger than a woman with the same muscle mass, as guys are better at motor unit recruitment than women are. Wen and woman are different in more ways than socialization.

This is why you don't match men and woman weight lifters and why there are men's and woman's divisions in sports. The multiple examples of woman's national soccer team being beaten by a middle school boys team is another example. Life isn't fair, but it is what it is.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6072/aust ... stigiacomo

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a- ... scrimmage/


Femine physical structure aside, the fact remains that a native person from a high G planet will have more strength than someone from a 1 G planet.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Sun May 21, 2017 7:18 pm

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True. i think there is textev someplace that says that most Genies don't go around advertising that they are. Of course, some one who would know the signs - metabolism, reflexes, etc. - might suspect it.


Alison had no problem in recognizing not only that Alfred was a Genie, but a Myerdahl 2, at first glance.

Of course, she's Beowulf, and a geneticist in training, so she probably knew the subtle signs setting various mods apart, not only from "baseline" humans, but also from each other.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Vince   » Mon May 22, 2017 3:16 am

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munroburton wrote:
cthia wrote:Per my jumbled memory, I thought that that's what being a genie meant. That you are conditioned to live on heavy worlds and the harsh environment. Obviously my memory fails me and I am in error? Would someone kindly shed light on my darkness lest I have to go looking for half-a-needle in the Pearls haystack.


Genies are those who have been genetically engineered or whose ancestors have. It's true that heavyworld gene mods probably make up a substantial percentage, but several examples of non-heavyworld genies come to mind: Graysons(their mod focuses on adapting to heavy metals, not higher gravity) and various Mesan slave and star lines. There are probably gene mods for low-g and zero-g environments.

One notable example of a heavyworld colony without any gene mods is Ndebele, Thandi Palane's homeworld. Due to extended isolation and the extreme environment, Ndebele's natives are at the "edge of human physical performance." However, the lack of gene mods meant they are stuck with a high child mortality rate(e.g. babies born without the necessary genes to survive simply die off - as Ndebele's colonizers apparently intended :().

Indeed, that process worked so well(in that it produced a population of super atheletes) on Ndebele that Manpower at some time carried out raids in order to obtain genetic material for creating heavy labour slaves.

The Mfecane worlds (Zulu and Ndebele) did some genetic modification on their colonists. Just exactly what those mods were is not explicitly stated:
Crown of Slaves, Chapter 18 wrote:After she and Victor gave the waiter their orders, Thandi cocked her head. "And what would you know about my metabolism?"
"I study things. Ginny tells me I'm compulsive about it. So after I met you, I did some research on the Mfecane worlds. Ndebele, in particular."
"And?"
He made a face. "If you'll pardon my saying so, your ancestors were a bunch of lunatics."
"Tell me something I don't know."
"Still, there was a method to their madness. At least, once you get past the initial premise that the African genotype is the purest human stock. It's actually the most variegated, since it's the oldest. However, in an odd sort of way, that initial racialist obsession worked to their advantage. Because it meant that they had the widest genetic variation to start applying natural selection to, not to mention—"
"Their own grotesque genetic manipulations." Harshly: "Tell me something I don't know."
He shrugged. "What I suspect you don't know—fully realize, anyway—is that the combined effect of the whole process made the Mfecane worlds an even greater experiment in human development than the Ukrainian laboratories which produced the so-called 'supersoldiers' of the Final War, whose modern descendants we call 'Scrags.' About the only thing comparable is the slave breeding laboratories run by Manpower Unlimited. Except that Manpower is deliberately trying to contain development within narrow limits, whereas your ancestors were trying to exceed all limits. Which they certainly did, as far as most physical characteristics are concerned."
Italics are the authors', boldface is my emphasis.
-------------------------------------------------------------
History does not repeat itself so much as it echoes.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon May 22, 2017 10:02 pm

cthia
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Ok then, if I've acceptably recovered enough after the initial concussion suffered from headboard abuse...

gene mods = genetic modification = genies = prob. heavy worlder

It is true that I forgot to lump Grayson's "abnormal" modifications along with Ndebele's "insanity" into the mix. But certainly heavy world gene mods are the norm. Whereas, I'd imagine heavy world settlements are the norm. Technically, even Grayson at 1.17G and Manticore at 1.01G are heavy worlds, just not heavy enough to require modification in that respect. Lower gravity mods would also qualify as genetic modification as someone also pointed out, albeit ICSTR any lower G gene mods. Anyone?

However, for the most part, putting the heat back on Pavel Young, someone who likes to crank up the grav plates screams heavy world modification, because for the most part heavy worlders have been genetically engineered to be able to exist on heavy worlds lest skewed data points represented by Ndebele's, and any other's, insanity. Certainly all of this would be required reading at the academy even if you discount common knowledge indicative of those who are fortunate enough to be byproducts of the Manticoran education system.

I also shouldn't forget the "accessory" gene mods characterized by the MAlign.

.
Last edited by cthia on Tue May 23, 2017 2:21 am, edited 2 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon May 22, 2017 10:22 pm

cthia
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kzt wrote:
Theemile wrote:She being a genie or not is irrelevant. Knowing that she is a yeoman from Sphinx indicates that she is a native of the planet, so her body is completely conditioned to live normally in 1.3+ G. So she automatically has 1/3 more muscle mass than someone otherwise identical from Earth it Manticore.

In other words, a "typical" 120 lb(earth) woman from Sphinx would weigh 160 pounds on Sphinx, and probably have the same physical strength as a 160 lb man from Manticore, just with less mass to put behind their punch.

No. A woman who isn't in a work of fiction has less muscle and more fat than a man of the same weight and condition. And the man is almost certainly stronger than a woman with the same muscle mass, as guys are better at motor unit recruitment than women are. Wen and woman are different in more ways than socialization.

This is why you don't match men and woman weight lifters and why there are men's and woman's divisions in sports. The multiple examples of woman's national soccer team being beaten by a middle school boys team is another example. Life isn't fair, but it is what it is.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/6072/aust ... stigiacomo

http://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a- ... scrimmage/
Theemile wrote:Femine physical structure aside, the fact remains that a native person from a high G planet will have more strength than someone from a 1 G planet.
My bold to call attention.

Intuitive. Even all else being equal, though it's not, if you are naturally "pumping iron" 24-7 then comparatively you are naturally going to be stronger.

.
Last edited by cthia on Tue May 23, 2017 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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