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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:25 pm

cthia
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Considering Honor's relationship with a treecat strengthening her resolve at an even tender age, I'm really surprised that she couldn't and wouldn't come forth with the truth straightaway and report Young as soon as "the incident" in question happened.

Storyline always supported the fact that bondings made the human half of the bond mentally stronger. In fact, I always thought that that was one of the special ingredients that made a human's mind glow so appetizing. Certainly a coward of the Houseman variety wouldn't have an appealing mindglow. Honor had a strong will which would have been magnified with her being one half of a bonded equation.

How could she have held out against the mental and emotional onslaught of right and wrong that had to be constantly emanating from Nimitz so strongly that no bond was needed to detect it? I'd've thought that Nimitz' emotions would've relentlessly bombarded her to do the right thing.

Certainly Honor should have been internally ashamed of her actions being reflected in a treecat's sense of honor (pardon the unintentional pun). I suspect that it would have been terribly difficult, emotionally, for Nimitz to bear. My niece once stated that she didn't understand why Nimitz never needed therapy.

Of all the decisions Honor made, this one alone seems so uncharacteristic and alien of her. I have a hard time buying it. Factor in how her mother and father raised her with their acute sense of right and wrong and their abundance of love...

shrug

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Hornblower   » Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:25 pm

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cthia wrote:Considering Honor's relationship with a treecat strengthening her resolve at an even tender age, I'm really surprised that she couldn't and wouldn't come forth with the truth straightaway and report Young as soon as "the incident" in question happened.

Storyline always supported the fact that bondings made the human half of the bond mentally stronger. In fact, I always thought that that was one of the special ingredients that made a human's mind glow so appetizing. Certainly a coward of the Houseman variety wouldn't have an appealing mindglow. Honor had a strong will which would have been magnified with her being one half of a bonded equation.

How could she have held out against the mental and emotional onslaught of right and wrong that had to be constantly emanating from Nimitz so strongly that no bond was needed to detect it? I'd've thought that Nimitz' emotions would've relentlessly bombarded her to do the right thing.

Certainly Honor should have been internally ashamed of her actions being reflected in a treecat's sense of honor (pardon the unintentional pun). I suspect that it would have been terribly difficult, emotionally, for Nimitz to bear. My niece once stated that she didn't understand why Nimitz never needed therapy.

Of all the decisions Honor made, this one alone seems so uncharacteristic and alien of her. I have a hard time buying it. Factor in how her mother and father raised her with their acute sense of right and wrong and their abundance of love...

shrug

It was needed for the storyline ;)
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:14 pm

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Hornblower wrote:
cthia wrote:Considering Honor's relationship with a treecat strengthening her resolve at an even tender age, I'm really surprised that she couldn't and wouldn't come forth with the truth straightaway and report Young as soon as "the incident" in question happened.

Storyline always supported the fact that bondings made the human half of the bond mentally stronger. In fact, I always thought that that was one of the special ingredients that made a human's mind glow so appetizing. Certainly a coward of the Houseman variety wouldn't have an appealing mindglow. Honor had a strong will which would have been magnified with her being one half of a bonded equation.

How could she have held out against the mental and emotional onslaught of right and wrong that had to be constantly emanating from Nimitz so strongly that no bond was needed to detect it? I'd've thought that Nimitz' emotions would've relentlessly bombarded her to do the right thing.

Certainly Honor should have been internally ashamed of her actions being reflected in a treecat's sense of honor (pardon the unintentional pun). I suspect that it would have been terribly difficult, emotionally, for Nimitz to bear. My niece once stated that she didn't understand why Nimitz never needed therapy.

Of all the decisions Honor made, this one alone seems so uncharacteristic and alien of her. I have a hard time buying it. Factor in how her mother and father raised her with their acute sense of right and wrong and their abundance of love...

shrug

It was needed for the storyline ;)


1) Two-legs have always baffled The People. All the customs and rituals, "diplomacy" ...

2) Honor's self-image as an ugly cow, especially compared to her mother, coupled with the difference in social status, the inevitable "he said, she said" all conspired in her mind to disuade her from speaking up.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:21 pm

cthia
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Another thing. Why was it so easy for Honor to be able to leave Nimitz in her cabin in situations where Nimitz knew she would be meeting with Young?

I couldn't understand why Nimitz and Honor didn't argue. After all, Nimitz wasn't a pet and had a mind-glow of his own. A very bright one too. An astute reader would suspect it went on between the lines and off-screen. Nimitz' love for his person radiated a fierce protective shell about Honor....

<Dammit Honor, you are not leaving me in my quarters! I'm riding atop!>

"No!"

<Yes! I'm coming with you! And if that SOB so much as even sneeze, I'm gonna phuck. him. up!>


Do forgive me. I have a friend that has no filter. He is worse than the Don! And when he imitates Nimitz and delivers this line in this fashion, its a side splitter! Thought I'd share. Hilarious.

Just another case of the human element again, this time manifesting itself in another species. Nimitz has an innate sense of right and wrong and he is fiercely protective of his person. And why shouldn't he or any other treecat, since their own life is tied to it? Nimitz would easily pick up on Honor's apprehension, disgust, fear of her temper being unleashed and many other emotions and fears all rolled up in a shell. And Nimitz wanted to crack that nut, in his shell!

Pavel attempted to rape Honor. I wonder... what is the measure of a treecat's sense of rape?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Direwolf18   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:52 pm

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cthia wrote:Another thing. Why was it so easy for Honor to be able to leave Nimitz in her cabin in situations where Nimitz knew she would be meeting with Young?


A couple of points. First Honor should have told someone but when it came to her looks she was very very self conscious about her appearance. There is a great interview with David Weber talking about Mr. Baens first read through of "On Basalisk Station". It has been a couple of years but the premis is that Mr. Baen calls David Weber up going, "You made her ugly?!" Obviously she is not but you can see that her personal confidence was very lacking in the early books. In a professional sense she was on point. There are many many instances of women today surviving rape or attempted rape and never saying a word. This isn't just women with low self esteem it's one of those things that unless you are there it's really really hard to judge. And as surprising as it seems with the honor we see now 20 years latter, Midshipman Honor Harrington was a far different matter in the self confidence department.

Now the question of Nimitz. First she did not know she was meeting Young, he in fact ambushed her in the showers. After he had gone through the effort to have a sleeping drug put into Nimitz's food. He was stupid but not stupid enough to risk that kind of crap with a tree cat there. If he did half as much homework on his mark as he should have he would have realized physically assaulting her while not as suicidal as doing it with a tree at present, was not what one calls a good idea.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by noblehunter   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:09 pm

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Once acrimony developed between Honor and Young (before the attempted rape), it would be easier for Honor to leave Nimitz at home rather than risking a confrontation. Treecats aren't good with pretending to get along so as to not cause a scene.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by saber964   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:33 pm

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noblehunter wrote:Once acrimony developed between Honor and Young (before the attempted rape), it would be easier for Honor to leave Nimitz at home rather than risking a confrontation. Treecats aren't good with pretending to get along so as to not cause a scene.



Especially when that 'scene' is likely to cover the deck and bulkheads's with blood spray.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:08 pm

cthia
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saber964 wrote:
noblehunter wrote:Once acrimony developed between Honor and Young (before the attempted rape), it would be easier for Honor to leave Nimitz at home rather than risking a confrontation. Treecats aren't good with pretending to get along so as to not cause a scene.



Especially when that 'scene' is likely to cover the deck and bulkheads's with blood spray.

Yes, but I'm talking about after the incident.

Before the incident, Young was just a horny nuisance to Honor and probably just someone Nimitz regarded with disdain. But after the incident, Young became an enemy to Nimitz as well, having crossed the line. And to a treecat, there are only two kinds of enemies. Those who have been dealt with and those who haven't.

I'm not sure how many scenes there were after the incident in question where Honor engaged Young and left Nimitz in her cabin to bite and sharpen his nails, but when Young met with Honor in his cabin in the Basilisk system and wouldn't invite her to sit was one such incident, and she had left Nimitz in her cabin, iinm. I can't see that going over so well with Nimitz.

Not sure, but I think there was at least one more occasion before the trial.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Fox2!   » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:38 pm

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cthia wrote:
Before the incident, Young was just a horny nuisance to Honor and probably just someone Nimitz regarded with disdain. But after the incident, Young became an enemy to Nimitz as well, having crossed the line. And to a treecat, there are only two kinds of enemies. Those who have been dealt with and those who haven't.


I will add one qualifier: haven't been dealt with yet.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:07 am

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Fox2! wrote:
cthia wrote:
Before the incident, Young was just a horny nuisance to Honor and probably just someone Nimitz regarded with disdain. But after the incident, Young became an enemy to Nimitz as well, having crossed the line. And to a treecat, there are only two kinds of enemies. Those who have been dealt with and those who haven't.


I will add one qualifier: haven't been dealt with yet.


IIRC the actual adage is, "...Only two sorts of enemies. Those who have been suitably dealt with and those that are still alive."
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Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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