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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sun May 28, 2017 4:09 pm

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cthia wrote:
Dauntless wrote:probably not but in stephanie Harringtons day there was a large part of the population that was just completely base line human.[snip]

Is there any textev supporting this? I don't doubt that there is, it just floors me. After all, the appropriate passage regarding Stephanie Harrington did use the term "pure strainers."

It is difficult to believe that most of the planet were normal humans. That would include infants, children, frail and sickly adults, the general sickly as well. Difficult to fathom. You cannot install grav plates everywhere unless you erect entire walled cities completely contained like Grayson's cities.

Under the dome.
I thought there was something in the young adult books, but couldn't find it quickly. However the topic of the percentage of "genies" on Sphinx did come up in a conversation between Honor and White Haven in IEH which seems to imply that even then there might still be a large percentage of unmodified Humans living there.

(The sequence is kind of long, so I snipped a few bits out and I underlined the key bit)
In Enemy Hands: Ch. 3 wrote:The earl blinked briefly, his expression totally blank, then nodded in sudden understanding. It was considered extremely impolite to use the term "genie" to describe someone, but given Harrington's neurosurgeon father and—especially—geneticist mother, she was probably more comfortable with the label than many. For that matter, the prejudice against genetically engineered humans was slowly dying out as the last memories of Old Earth's Final War faded from the racial forebrain. But there had been no such prejudice in the early days of the Diaspora, and quite a few colonies had been established by genies specifically designed for their new environments.
"I wasn't aware of that, Milady," he said after a moment.
"We don't talk about it much, but I'd guess the majority of Sphinxians are genies by now," she replied. He raised a polite eyebrow, and she shrugged. "Think about it," she suggested. "Heavy-grav planets are one of the most common 'hostile' environments. You know that even today most heavy-worlders have shorter than average life expectancies?" She looked at White Haven again, and he nodded. "That's because even with modern medicine you can't put a body designed for a single gravity onto a one-point-three or one-point-five-gravity planet and expect it to function properly. I, on the other hand—"
[snip]
The idea was to fit us for heavy-grav planets generally, not one in particular, and the geneticists made the changes dominant, so that every parent would pass them on to every child."
"And your diet?"
"I don't get more efficient muscles and a stronger heart for free, My Lord," Honor said wryly. "My metabolism runs about twenty percent faster—a little more than that actually, but not much—to fuel the differences. Which is why I can afford to eat like this," she finished, grinning as MacGuiness put a third plate of waffles in front of her.
[snip]
"That's fascinating," White Haven murmured. "You say more than half of Sphinx has the same modification?"
"That's only an estimate, and it's not one modification.
The Harringtons are descended from the Meyerdahl First Wave, which was one of the first—in fact, I think it was the first—heavy-grav modification, and folks like us probably make up about twenty or twenty-five percent of the population. But there are several variations on the same theme, and worlds tend to attract colonists who can live there comfortably. When you add the free passages the government offered to recruit fresh colonists after the Plague of Twenty-Two AL, Sphinx wound up attracting an even bigger chunk of us than most, including a lot from the core worlds who wouldn't even have considered emigration otherwise. In many respects, the Meyerdahl genies are the most successful, in my modest opinion, though. Our musculature enhancement is certainly the most efficient, at any rate.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by drothgery   » Sun May 28, 2017 11:27 pm

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Vince wrote:
cthia wrote:I cannot seem to find out what sort of gene mods the Andermani might have or the G rating of New Potsdam.

I don't think the Andermani have any general (across the entire population) gene mods.

Since the Empire was put together by 'helping' star systems which had no significant ties prior to being annexed, it would be extremely improbable for there to be any.

Heck, although we tend to think of German/Chinese as normal for Andermani, it's probably really only normal for the aristocracy. Most Andermani are (probably) not from Potsdam.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:36 am

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Kizarvexis wrote:Yes, Honor is headstrong and rarely backs down from a confrontation. BUT, I must disagree with you.

1) Honor worked with Nimitz about proper respect for authority. She mentions in a book, I forget which one, but an early one, that Nimitz thought it silly to respect a higher ranked authority who was stupid, but went along with her as the silly human authority concepts were important to her. Pavel Young was a upper classman, so even at the academy he had rank on her. He also had powerful supporters and Honor knew this. She had convinced Nimitz that this was how human society worked, which is why Nimitz didn't go after people except when they were a direct threat or it would not splash back on Honor. Think of how the treecats treated Mueller when they could get away with it, even though they would have almost certainly preferred to just ended the problem. Besides, Honor mentions that Nimitz was not happy at being left out of meetings with Pavel Young, we just didn't have it described explicitly. Nimitz knows that two-leg dealings are complicated and can't always be solved with treecat methods.

2) Yes, Honor is headstrong and capable, but our harshest critics can be ourselves. There are many, many beautiful women who do not think of themselves as beautiful. They only see their own flaws and not their beauty. Comparing yourself as a gawky teenager in a really stretched out growth period with your exotically beautiful mother, who you never saw go through that awkward teenage phase, and you could develop some quite strong self doubts about your beauty. Heck, that was central to her relationship with Paul Tankersley.

3) You are saying that Nimitz should have been a buttress to Honor and she should have told Commodore Hartley about the attack. This ties directly into the two points above. Yes they are bonded, but Honor mentions that of course Nimitz loves her, but he is a treecat. So his love and support for her isn't the right kind of attack to breach the walls she put around herself about being an ugly duckling. Paul's love for her was. And just because Nimitz may have urged her to come clean about what really happened, doesn't mean Honor would listen. Especially, when it was tied into something as emotionally charged as attempted rape. And when Honor could justify to herself that she kicked the stuffing out of him and this could splash onto the service if it came out into the open. Remember the rumor campaign and how they got her to accept command of HMS Wayfarer to get them out of a bind? It was predicated on how Honor wouldn't do something for herself, but would do anything else duty required.

As for the sexuality of it, treecats don't care about the human's business and Honor didn't care about Nimitz details. Yes, you have a relationship, great. But the details didn't matter as they don't really relate. NOTE: THIS IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, AN INVITATION FOR FURTHER DETAILED EXPLORATION.



Nimitz does indeed represent a buttress to Honor, yet he is so very much more than that. The defensive qualities of a buttress is simply half of the equation. Nimitz also brings to the table an offensive quality to the bond, emotionally as well as physically. It isn't just a passive relationship. True emotional support does not tend to make one passive. It is a buttress and a battering ram.

Image

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:51 pm

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Nimitz' POV

Nimitz has heard 99.98 % of Honor's temper tantrums in her quarters.

Do you suppose that Honor vents her frustrations in her quarters? Is she not human? Does Nimitz witness her throwing ... ... pillows? Does Nimitz get an ear full in the privacy and sanctity of Honor's quarters?

"I wish I could just kill the SOB!"

<Well just choke the SOB out already! Honor. :o Why send me such an aghast expression? With all of the detailed images I receive from you when your uncolored anger comes through>

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:25 pm

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Does anyone happen to know Lady Emily Alexander's exact age?* If she were to receive a Weber miracle and regain her motor functions, could Honor teach her the coup?

* Since you can't ask a lady her age.

Coup de vitesse (French for blow of speed) was a martial art developed on the planet Nouveau Dijon in a further development of Oriental and Western Earth forms.

It reached mature form by about 1103 PD, and became particularly popular in the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Other new styles of martial arts developed on other planets as well, so the coup was not alone as a development of the Old Earth traditions of martial arts.

Coup de vitesse was primarily an offensive hard-style form, a combination of cool self-control and go-for-broke ferocity designed to take advantage of a taller person's larger size and longer reach than many opponents. The form concentrated on abrupt violent attacks, and made far less effort to use an opponent's strength against her than many older (largely Old Earth oriental forms), largely at the expense of centering and defense. It had borrowed freely from other forms such as Savate and T'ai Chi.

Like many martial art forms, coup de vitesse used a belt system to mark the rank and achievements of its practitioners. Honor Harrington and Iris Babcock both earned black belts, as did Lewis Hallowell. (HH2, HH6)

Chief Petty Officer MacDougal was an instructor of the martial art at the Royal Manticoran Naval Academy. It was his favorite. Paul Tankersley was a practitioner of the martial art. (HH3)


As I think about it, it struck me. Coup de vitesse must be an absolutely frightening style to opponents. Especially in the hands of a heavy worlder. Each move is either a kill move or a debilitating move—breaking or smashing things. They are aggressive moves. Don't give a heavy worlder cause to be aggressive. :roll:

Can you imagine one of the Ramirezes as a Coup de vitesse practitioner? Would it even be a suitable style for a San Martino? Smash&Grab.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:38 pm

cthia
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cthia wrote:Does anyone happen to know Lady Emily Alexander's exact age?* If she were to receive a Weber miracle and regain her motor functions, could Honor teach her the coup?

* Since you can't ask a lady her age.

Coup de vitesse (French for blow of speed) was a martial art developed on the planet Nouveau Dijon in a further development of Oriental and Western Earth forms.

It reached mature form by about 1103 PD, and became particularly popular in the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Other new styles of martial arts developed on other planets as well, so the coup was not alone as a development of the Old Earth traditions of martial arts.

Coup de vitesse was primarily an offensive hard-style form, a combination of cool self-control and go-for-broke ferocity designed to take advantage of a taller person's larger size and longer reach than many opponents. The form concentrated on abrupt violent attacks, and made far less effort to use an opponent's strength against her than many older (largely Old Earth oriental forms), largely at the expense of centering and defense. It had borrowed freely from other forms such as Savate and T'ai Chi.

Like many martial art forms, coup de vitesse used a belt system to mark the rank and achievements of its practitioners. Honor Harrington and Iris Babcock both earned black belts, as did Lewis Hallowell. (HH2, HH6)

Chief Petty Officer MacDougal was an instructor of the martial art at the Royal Manticoran Naval Academy. It was his favorite. Paul Tankersley was a practitioner of the martial art. (HH3)


As I think about it, it struck me. Coup de vitesse must be an absolutely frightening style to opponents. Especially in the hands of a heavy worlder. Each move is either a kill move or a debilitating move—breaking or smashing things. They are aggressive moves. Don't give a heavy worlder cause to be aggressive. :roll:

Can you imagine one of the Ramirezes as a Coup de vitesse practitioner? Would it even be a suitable style for a San Martino? Smash&Grab.



Can you imagine some mission with Honor, Harkness, Babcock, Hallowell, Zilwicki, Master Tye, Thandi Palane, Victor Cachat and Usher reunion and Jeremy X infiltrating a MAlign cell somewhere and having to fight to get out?!

.
Last edited by cthia on Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by saber964   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:42 pm

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cthia wrote:Does anyone happen to know Lady Emily Alexander's exact age?* If she were to receive a Weber miracle and regain her motor functions, could Honor teach her the coup?

* Since you can't ask a lady her age.

Coup de vitesse (French for blow of speed) was a martial art developed on the planet Nouveau Dijon in a further development of Oriental and Western Earth forms.

It reached mature form by about 1103 PD, and became particularly popular in the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Other new styles of martial arts developed on other planets as well, so the coup was not alone as a development of the Old Earth traditions of martial arts.

Coup de vitesse was primarily an offensive hard-style form, a combination of cool self-control and go-for-broke ferocity designed to take advantage of a taller person's larger size and longer reach than many opponents. The form concentrated on abrupt violent attacks, and made far less effort to use an opponent's strength against her than many older (largely Old Earth oriental forms), largely at the expense of centering and defense. It had borrowed freely from other forms such as Savate and T'ai Chi.

Like many martial art forms, coup de vitesse used a belt system to mark the rank and achievements of its practitioners. Honor Harrington and Iris Babcock both earned black belts, as did Lewis Hallowell. (HH2, HH6)

Chief Petty Officer MacDougal was an instructor of the martial art at the Royal Manticoran Naval Academy. It was his favorite. Paul Tankersley was a practitioner of the martial art. (HH3)


As I think about it, it struck me. Coup de vitesse must be an absolutely frightening style to opponents. Especially in the hands of a heavy worlder. Each move is either a kill move or a debilitating move—breaking or smashing things. They are aggressive moves. Don't give a heavy worlder cause to be aggressive. :roll:

Can you imagine one of the Ramirezes as a Coup de vitesse practitioner? Would it even be a suitable style for a San Martino? Smash&Grab.


The Coup sounds a lot like Penjak Selaht a fighting style from Malaysia and Indonesia. It literally came out of the jungle after WWII and has only one objective in a fight, to kill or maim an opponent as quickly and as violently as possible.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by ldwechsler   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:45 pm

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cthia wrote:
Kizarvexis wrote:Yes, Honor is headstrong and rarely backs down from a confrontation. BUT, I must disagree with you.

1) Honor worked with Nimitz about proper respect for authority. She mentions in a book, I forget which one, but an early one, that Nimitz thought it silly to respect a higher ranked authority who was stupid, but went along with her as the silly human authority concepts were important to her. Pavel Young was a upper classman, so even at the academy he had rank on her. He also had powerful supporters and Honor knew this. She had convinced Nimitz that this was how human society worked, which is why Nimitz didn't go after people except when they were a direct threat or it would not splash back on Honor. Think of how the treecats treated Mueller when they could get away with it, even though they would have almost certainly preferred to just ended the problem. Besides, Honor mentions that Nimitz was not happy at being left out of meetings with Pavel Young, we just didn't have it described explicitly. Nimitz knows that two-leg dealings are complicated and can't always be solved with treecat methods.

2) Yes, Honor is headstrong and capable, but our harshest critics can be ourselves. There are many, many beautiful women who do not think of themselves as beautiful. They only see their own flaws and not their beauty. Comparing yourself as a gawky teenager in a really stretched out growth period with your exotically beautiful mother, who you never saw go through that awkward teenage phase, and you could develop some quite strong self doubts about your beauty. Heck, that was central to her relationship with Paul Tankersley.

3) You are saying that Nimitz should have been a buttress to Honor and she should have told Commodore Hartley about the attack. This ties directly into the two points above. Yes they are bonded, but Honor mentions that of course Nimitz loves her, but he is a treecat. So his love and support for her isn't the right kind of attack to breach the walls she put around herself about being an ugly duckling. Paul's love for her was. And just because Nimitz may have urged her to come clean about what really happened, doesn't mean Honor would listen. Especially, when it was tied into something as emotionally charged as attempted rape. And when Honor could justify to herself that she kicked the stuffing out of him and this could splash onto the service if it came out into the open. Remember the rumor campaign and how they got her to accept command of HMS Wayfarer to get them out of a bind? It was predicated on how Honor wouldn't do something for herself, but would do anything else duty required.

As for the sexuality of it, treecats don't care about the human's business and Honor didn't care about Nimitz details. Yes, you have a relationship, great. But the details didn't matter as they don't really relate. NOTE: THIS IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, AN INVITATION FOR FURTHER DETAILED EXPLORATION.



Nimitz does indeed represent a buttress to Honor, yet he is so very much more than that. The defensive qualities of a buttress is simply half of the equation. Nimitz also brings to the table an offensive quality to the bond, emotionally as well as physically. It isn't just a passive relationship. True emotional support does not tend to make one passive. It is a buttress and a battering ram.

Image



Based on textev, it is clear that Nimitz was not with her in the showers. Had he been, Young would not have dared to make a play and if he had Nimitz would have shredded him.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:59 pm

cthia
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Posts: 8189
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

cthia wrote:Does anyone happen to know Lady Emily Alexander's exact age?* If she were to receive a Weber miracle and regain her motor functions, could Honor teach her the coup?

* Since you can't ask a lady her age.

Coup de vitesse (French for blow of speed) was a martial art developed on the planet Nouveau Dijon in a further development of Oriental and Western Earth forms.

It reached mature form by about 1103 PD, and became particularly popular in the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Other new styles of martial arts developed on other planets as well, so the coup was not alone as a development of the Old Earth traditions of martial arts.

Coup de vitesse was primarily an offensive hard-style form, a combination of cool self-control and go-for-broke ferocity designed to take advantage of a taller person's larger size and longer reach than many opponents. The form concentrated on abrupt violent attacks, and made far less effort to use an opponent's strength against her than many older (largely Old Earth oriental forms), largely at the expense of centering and defense. It had borrowed freely from other forms such as Savate and T'ai Chi.

Like many martial art forms, coup de vitesse used a belt system to mark the rank and achievements of its practitioners. Honor Harrington and Iris Babcock both earned black belts, as did Lewis Hallowell. (HH2, HH6)

Chief Petty Officer MacDougal was an instructor of the martial art at the Royal Manticoran Naval Academy. It was his favorite. Paul Tankersley was a practitioner of the martial art. (HH3)


As I think about it, it struck me. Coup de vitesse must be an absolutely frightening style to opponents. Especially in the hands of a heavy worlder. Each move is either a kill move or a debilitating move—breaking or smashing things. They are aggressive moves. Don't give a heavy worlder cause to be aggressive. :roll:

Can you imagine one of the Ramirezes as a Coup de vitesse practitioner? Would it even be a suitable style for a San Martino? Smash&Grab.
saber964 wrote:The Coup sounds a lot like Penjak Selaht a fighting style from Malaysia and Indonesia. It literally came out of the jungle after WWII and has only one objective in a fight, to kill or maim an opponent as quickly and as violently as possible.

This Penjak Selaht does sound just as frightening. Probably no wasted moves either. Defense into offense. Smash. Break. Maim. Kill. (SBMK)

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by robert132   » Tue Aug 08, 2017 11:53 am

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cthia wrote:Can you imagine some mission with Honor, Harkness, Babcock, Hallowell, Zilwicki, Master Tye, Thandi Palane, Victor Cachat and Usher reunion and Jeremy X infiltrating a MAlign cell somewhere and having to fight to get out?!

.


Most definitely fun to consider! The mayhem this group would be capable of has the makings of a Hollywood action movie. :shock: :lol:
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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