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Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young

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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:57 pm

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shayvaan wrote:
cthia wrote: <snip>
An excellent point. Although, in my defense, Nimitz' ability to sign was not needed to get his point across with respect to being left in his quarters. You ever tried to pry the hands of a small child away from a door jamb who didn't want to leave? Happens all of the time when parents leave their kids to play in my game room. It should not have been easy for Honor to pry six much stronger limbs away from what passed as her ship's door jamb. And I'm sure Nimitz' head would have been rapidly swiveling on its axis from side to side in the universal language of a "No Way Jose!" type of a gesture. The words I embedded, for dramatic effect, I imagined that Nimitz was thinking accompanied by Honor's retort.


Good point, however it mentions several times in the earlier books that there are aspects of human life that treecats STILL do not comprehend. Mostly this deals with tech of course, but there are those silly "Two-legs" concepts that that the telempathic treecats have problems with as well. For the most part treecats cope by trusting their two-leg, so unless the treecat thinks their two-leg is going into a physically dangerous situation, they would usually relent rather than cause their two-leg other problems with their own perfectly reasonable and natural responses to someone who does not like their two-leg :D

Besides iirc, textev always supported the fact that there was a reasonable amount of communication between Honor and Nimitz that had developed over the years, and though it was limited, was still plenty enough for her to know his wishes. Just not efficient enough to impart the in-depth, detailed type of information in a formal interview-like setting that would have been required regarding, for instance, the dissemination of the history and tradition of the cats, per se.

Even a human child that hasn't quite learned to talk manages to convey certain things. Nimitz, being greatly more intelligent and determined than that would have had no problem making his wishes known, especially those involving Pavel Young and being left in his quarters. Just the image of Nimitz' arms outstretched and whiteknuckle gripping both doorjambs and blocking Honor's exit and delivering an earpiercing child-like shrill would have been communication enough, and humorous. It would be interesting to note the number of times she left him in his quarters when she knew that her path would cross Youngs after he learned to sign though.

Excellent point still, to keep us on our toes.


The problem wasn't his getting his point across, Honor was well aware of Nimitz's opinion of Young (one might say abundantly aware :mrgreen: )
The situation, mostly is like this:
1. Nimitz knows of Young's hostility, but
2. He also knows that Honor is aware of it as well
3. He also knows that Young is a coward and Nimitz is also confidant that
4. If Young were stupid enough to try anything physical that Honor would stomp him good (which he did and she did)
5. The physical dangers were not in formal meetings that he might get excluded from, but from ambushes that he WOULD (unless he gets drugged of course)

Side note: Young was killed before treecats learned to sign, it was the fallout of her killing Young that caused the circumstances that got her captuered and Nimitz injured.
All excellent points.

For a blue-ribbon of an understatement, there are some very interesting psychological undertones regarding this particular trinity. The entire relationship is one for Freud and the more modern psychologists to bask in and kill each other over.

I'm always talking about the human element. And I know it probably wears many of you thin. Does me too. Yet it is always there, smiling.

The problem is that truthfully, if we are honest with ourselves, Honor couldn't handle Young. She couldn't. He was, and is, the only one in the Honorverse who ever got the best of her (Tourville notwithstanding). And he did it constantly. Honor didn't win a single engagement with Young before she finally killed him in-between beating his ass. But even in that, she lost. Lost because Young forced that ugly side out of her and lost because she couldn't and wouldn't bring herself to turn him in and see real justice done. But from that point on, Young owned her, in Honor's head.

Now, to be accurate, she got the best of him in the way she played her cards in the Basilisk System when he tried to set her up but that was at a less than perfect remove, a dish NOT served cold.

Strategically, she didn't know how to deal with him. He wasn't a Peep enemy in an inferior ship. Every confrontation she had with him Honor ended up tucking her tail between her legs and walking away. She had to. He embarrassed, taunted, disrespected, humiliated, every thing he could think of to do to her. Her achievements were nothing to Young. That hurt her too. Young never recognized Honor as an equal, in spite of all of her accomplishments, especially her accomplishments. To Pavel Young Harrington was a baseborn bitch socially beneath him and always would be. Young constantly pulled at the frayed little Yeomen string. And Honor knew that.

And this is where I see Nimitz come into play. Nimitz would have picked up on all of that in her mindglow, where she was constantly being berated and humiliated by Young. Nimitz would have known the truth of the psychological defeats Honor constantly suffered internally at the hands of her arch nemesis. It wasn't just a question of physical danger from Young. That wasn't a question, though a possibility if the creep played very unfairly as he did in poisoning Nimitz. If he would have somehow slipped Honor a Mickey, he could have had his way with her.

Of course Nimitz knew that if it ever came to blows that Honor could deal with Young physically, but that was never what was at stake. It was her sanity. It was her emotions--raw and unbalanced and always flayed open by Young with a dusting of salt. Honor's emotions—a plane of existence that treecats had no problem assimilating and by relation Nimitz would have always been conscious of Honor's emotional health—was on many levels vastly more important. In fact, the importance of her emotional health, which took an accumulative beating, rang true when she ended up on Grayson an emotional wreck, a mere shell of a woman at her breaking point having endured accumulative harassment from Young. It was her self respect, her self esteem, her self worth and it was all taking a serious beating which again would have constantly bombarded Nimitz at a very native level. The love between Nimitz and Honor runs deep and that alone would have made it rather difficult for Nimitz, emotionally, to honor some of Honor's two-legged requests. <Rubs me the wrong way Honor> In the ring on the mat of life, Young was kicking Honor's ass every round. I only imagine Nimitz not wanting to be left in his quarters because well, the human element of wanting to end Honor's emotional nightmare. The telempathic onslaught just couldn't have been a walk in the park for Nimitz either, exacerbated by an accompanying feeling of helplessness. I imagine that Nimitz had an emotional breaking point as well. Imagine seeing someone you intensely love constantly dragged through emotional hell. Emotional hell that your natural abilities just so happen to broadcast to you quite clearly and loudly. I really agree with my niece that it's a wonder that Nimitz never needed therapy.

<Honor, let me deal with the asshole>

With Nimitz there, none would have been another occasion for Young to intimidate Honor. That's like trying to intimidate Tarzan with his lion there.

Under the surface of things, it seems that Honor was aware of the emotional beating that Nimitz constantly endured and that he wanted to end it for her. Or she wouldn't have constantly left him in her quarters. Why didn't she trust that Nimitz could maintain? Is it because she knew internally that it was a bit much to even require it of him?

I know Nimitz has a hard time with many two-leg concepts, many of the intangibles like embarrassment, privacy and the like that wouldn't be an issue in a world of telempaths. That fact also makes it rather difficult for Nimitz to shelve his own natural tendencies. Like the innate charge to protect someone he loves.

I don't quite know how the treecats assimilate a human emotion like disrespect. But I'm fairly certain they have a related concept in their own world. And I cannot see the cats allowing an enemy to get away with it. It would rub a treecat against the grain in a very primal way. Allowing that same disrespect to bombard one's mated half from one's mated half's enemy would be as naturally irritating to Nimitz as scraping his claws against a blackboard.

<Can't do it>

It would not have been all that difficult for Nimitz to give in on other points. But the disrespect that Pavel represented in light of the obvious emotional toll it was exacting on Honor would seem to have been too basic a transgression. At any rate, Nimitz would have naturally wanted to handle the light work.

<Why are you letting that SOB intimate you. He is getting to you. Let me get to him. I'll show him intimidation. I won't lay a claw on him. I won't have to Honor. I assure you! I'll just look into his eyes and ensure that he sees death. He'll flip his end and run. Simple>

Thank Tester for Samantha, I'm sure Nimitz needed some recharging after constantly dealing with the overtones of Honor and Pavel Toung. <Sam, I need some crooning babe>


Thanks for that side note, it was a question in my mind, memory being what it is.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:18 pm

cthia
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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:He could have killed Nimitz -- that's one for the "What if" thread.


In the textev that revealed the sedative in Nimits' celery was Young's regret that Nimitz didn't get enough to kill him.
Jonathan_S wrote:Yep. Guess I should have mentioned that in my earlier post...

Still there seems to be some risk of a human snacking on the dosed celery instead of Nimitz. Though depending on how Honor's friend stored it, and how close to the event it was dosed, possibly not a major risk.
I'm not so sure Jonathan, date rape type drugs are some powerful stuff. And mixed with alcohol, as would be the case if the officers were having drinks, would have intensified the effect and as is the plight of many of these type drugs, can surely kill. And to reiterate, various people's chemistry handles it differently. Someone really could have died from a dose that wouldn't have quite killed the average person. If it was still potent enough to knock out Nimitz, it was probably still potent enough to kill, I'd imagine. Just not enough time elapsed to weaken such a drug. Besides, a drug of that nature would have remained potent for days in powder form. Of course, I don't think we know the form used and powder form may not have been appropriate for celery.

All speculation on my part though.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by robert132   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:17 pm

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cthia wrote:
cthia wrote: <snip>
An excellent point. Although, in my defense, Nimitz' ability to sign was not needed to get his point across with respect to being left in his quarters. You ever tried to pry the hands of a small child away from a door jamb who didn't want to leave? Happens all of the time when parents leave their kids to play in my game room. It should not have been easy for Honor to pry six much stronger limbs away from what passed as her ship's door jamb. And I'm sure Nimitz' head would have been rapidly swiveling on its axis from side to side in the universal language of a "No Way Jose!" type of a gesture. The words I embedded, for dramatic effect, I imagined that Nimitz was thinking accompanied by Honor's retort.



Good point, however it mentions several times in the earlier books that there are aspects of human life that treecats STILL do not comprehend. Mostly this deals with tech of course, but there are those silly "Two-legs" concepts that that the telempathic treecats have problems with as well. For the most part treecats cope by trusting their two-leg, so unless the treecat thinks their two-leg is going into a physically dangerous situation, they would usually relent rather than cause their two-leg other problems with their own perfectly reasonable and natural responses to someone who does not like their two-leg :D

Besides iirc, textev always supported the fact that there was a reasonable amount of communication between Honor and Nimitz that had developed over the years, and though it was limited, was still plenty enough for her to know his wishes. Just not efficient enough to impart the in-depth, detailed type of information in a formal interview-like setting that would have been required regarding, for instance, the dissemination of the history and tradition of the cats, per se.

Even a human child that hasn't quite learned to talk manages to convey certain things. Nimitz, being greatly more intelligent and determined than that would have had no problem making his wishes known, especially those involving Pavel Young and being left in his quarters. Just the image of Nimitz' arms outstretched and whiteknuckle gripping both doorjambs and blocking Honor's exit and delivering an earpiercing child-like shrill would have been communication enough, and humorous. It would be interesting to note the number of times she left him in his quarters when she knew that her path would cross Youngs after he learned to sign though.

Excellent point still, to keep us on our toes.


The problem wasn't his getting his point across, Honor was well aware of Nimitz's opinion of Young (one might say abundantly aware :mrgreen: )
The situation, mostly is like this:
1. Nimitz knows of Young's hostility, but
2. He also knows that Honor is aware of it as well
3. He also knows that Young is a coward and Nimitz is also confidant that
4. If Young were stupid enough to try anything physical that Honor would stomp him good (which he did and she did)
5. The physical dangers were not in formal meetings that he might get excluded from, but from ambushes that he WOULD (unless he gets drugged of course)

Side note: Young was killed before treecats learned to sign, it was the fallout of her killing Young that caused the circumstances that got her captuered and Nimitz injured.


All excellent points.

For a blue-ribbon of an understatement, there are some very interesting psychological undertones regarding this particular trinity. The entire relationship is one for Freud and the more modern psychologists to bask in and kill each other over.

I'm always talking about the human element. And I know it probably wears many of you thin. Does me too. Yet it is always there, smiling.

The problem is that truthfully, if we are honest with ourselves, Honor couldn't handle Young. She couldn't. He was, and is, the only one in the Honorverse who ever got the best of her (Tourville notwithstanding). And he did it constantly. Honor didn't win a single engagement with Young before she finally killed him in-between beating his ass. But even in that, she lost. Lost because Young forced that ugly side out of her and lost because she couldn't and wouldn't bring herself to turn him in and see real justice done. But from that point on, Young owned her, in Honor's head.

Now, to be accurate, she got the best of him in the way she played her cards in the Basilisk System when he tried to set her up but that was at a less than perfect remove, a dish NOT served cold.

Strategically, she didn't know how to deal with him. He wasn't a Peep enemy in an inferior ship. Every confrontation she had with him Honor ended up tucking her tail between her legs and walking away. She had to. He embarrassed, taunted, disrespected, humiliated, every thing he could think of to do to her. Her achievements were nothing to Young. That hurt her too. Young never recognized Honor as an equal, in spite of all of her accomplishments, especially her accomplishments. To Pavel Young Harrington was a baseborn bitch socially beneath him and always would be. Young constantly pulled at the frayed little Yeomen string. And Honor knew that.

And this is where I see Nimitz come into play. Nimitz would have picked up on all of that in her mindglow, where she was constantly being berated and humiliated by Young. Nimitz would have known the truth of the psychological defeats Honor constantly suffered internally at the hands of her arch nemesis. It wasn't just a question of physical danger from Young. That wasn't a question, though a possibility if the creep played very unfairly as he did in poisoning Nimitz. If he would have somehow slipped Honor a Mickey, he could have had his way with her.

Of course Nimitz knew that if it ever came to blows that Honor could deal with Young physically, but that was never what was at stake. It was her sanity. It was her emotions--raw and unbalanced and always flayed open by Young with a dusting of salt. Honor's emotions—a plane of existence that treecats had no problem assimilating and by relation Nimitz would have always been conscious of Honor's emotional health—was on many levels vastly more important. In fact, the importance of her emotional health, which took an accumulative beating, rang true when she ended up on Grayson an emotional wreck, a mere shell of a woman at her breaking point having endured accumulative harassment from Young. It was her self respect, her self esteem, her self worth and it was all taking a serious beating which again would have constantly bombarded Nimitz at a very native level. The love between Nimitz and Honor runs deep and that alone would have made it rather difficult for Nimitz, emotionally, to honor some of Honor's two-legged requests. <Rubs me the wrong way Honor> In the ring on the mat of life, Young was kicking Honor's ass every round. I only imagine Nimitz not wanting to be left in his quarters because well, the human element of wanting to end Honor's emotional nightmare. The telempathic onslaught just couldn't have been a walk in the park for Nimitz either, exacerbated by an accompanying feeling of helplessness. I imagine that Nimitz had an emotional breaking point as well. Imagine seeing someone you intensely love constantly dragged through emotional hell. Emotional hell that your natural abilities just so happen to broadcast to you quite clearly and loudly. I really agree with my niece that it's a wonder that Nimitz never needed therapy.

<Honor, let me deal with the asshole>

With Nimitz there, none would have been another occasion for Young to intimidate Honor. That's like trying to intimidate Tarzan with his lion there.

Under the surface of things, it seems that Honor was aware of the emotional beating that Nimitz constantly endured and that he wanted to end it for her. Or she wouldn't have constantly left him in her quarters. Why didn't she trust that Nimitz could maintain? Is it because she knew internally that it was a bit much to even require it of him?

I know Nimitz has a hard time with many two-leg concepts, many of the intangibles like embarrassment, privacy and the like that wouldn't be an issue in a world of telempaths. That fact also makes it rather difficult for Nimitz to shelve his own natural tendencies. Like the innate charge to protect someone he loves.

I don't quite know how the treecats assimilate a human emotion like disrespect. But I'm fairly certain they have a related concept in their own world. And I cannot see the cats allowing an enemy to get away with it. It would rub a treecat against the grain in a very primal way. Allowing that same disrespect to bombard one's mated half from one's mated half's enemy would be as naturally irritating to Nimitz as scraping his claws against a blackboard.

<Can't do it>

It would not have been all that difficult for Nimitz to give in on other points. But the disrespect that Pavel represented in light of the obvious emotional toll it was exacting on Honor would seem to have been too basic a transgression. At any rate, Nimitz would have naturally wanted to handle the light work.

<Why are you letting that SOB intimate you. He is getting to you. Let me get to him. I'll show him intimidation. I won't lay a claw on him. I won't have to Honor. I assure you! I'll just look into his eyes and ensure that he sees death. He'll flip his end and run. Simple>

Thank Tester for Samantha, I'm sure Nimitz needed some recharging after constantly dealing with the overtones of Honor and Pavel Toung. <Sam, I need some crooning babe>


Thanks for that side note, it was a question in my mind, memory being what it is.


Cythia, are you a psychologist by chance? The above is very well laid out and easy for even a dumb layperson like me to understand.
****

Just my opinion of course and probably not worth the paper it's not written on.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:14 pm

cthia
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Me a psychologist? Heavens no, I don't have the patience or the emotional control for a profession like that. You're no dumber than I am in that arena. I'm an air psychologist in the manner of an air guitarist playing away at it, there's just no guitar. I can blow the air like one though. Perhaps my sister rubbed off on me. She's a psychologist and has a way of always making you feel like you're lying on a sofa. One of my brothers says that our sister will analyze the margarine out of butter.

"There's no margarine in butter."

" ;) "

Minding my manners, thanks for the compliment.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Jonathan_S   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:02 pm

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cthia wrote:
Jonathan_S wrote:Yep. Guess I should have mentioned that in my earlier post...

Still there seems to be some risk of a human snacking on the dosed celery instead of Nimitz. Though depending on how Honor's friend stored it, and how close to the event it was dosed, possibly not a major risk.
I'm not so sure Jonathan, date rape type drugs are some powerful stuff. And mixed with alcohol, as would be the case if the officers were having drinks, would have intensified the effect and as is the plight of many of these type drugs, can surely kill. And to reiterate, various people's chemistry handles it differently. Someone really could have died from a dose that wouldn't have quite killed the average person. If it was still potent enough to knock out Nimitz, it was probably still potent enough to kill, I'd imagine. Just not enough time elapsed to weaken such a drug. Besides, a drug of that nature would have remained potent for days in powder form. Of course, I don't think we know the form used and powder form may not have been appropriate for celery.

All speculation on my part though.

When I said possibly not a major risk I was thinking primary about
a) How long the window of vulnerability was - how long had that celery been dosed.
b) How often celery to be given to Nimitz was instead consumed by a person.

I wasn't thinking that age would weaken the drug, or that it wouldn't badly affect humans. But if you only dose today's celery an hour before it's taken to Nimitz, and the celery given to him is normally reserved exclusively for him, then there's a limited chance that someone would eat it before it got to Nimitz.

But there are too many unknowns to even make much of a guess at how early Young had the celery spiked. Though I would say that he'd need some confidence is when it was given to Nimitz too early or too late and you can't count on Honor being in the showers while Nimitz is incapacitated. (He's with her, or she stays away while caring for him)
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by kzt   » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:05 pm

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There is a reasonable likelihood that there is at least on drug that will effect native Spinx lifeforms that won't have any impact on humans.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by WeirdlyWired   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:22 am

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kzt wrote:There is a reasonable likelihood that there is at least on drug that will effect native Spinx lifeforms that won't have any impact on humans.


Sure but not so reasonable likelihood that Pavel Young would know of it. Perhaps less reasonable even with his father's connections he would have access to it. Of course, I have been wrong before.
Helas,chou, Je m'en fache.
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:39 am

cthia
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WeirdlyWired wrote:
kzt wrote:There is a reasonable likelihood that there is at least on drug that will effect native Spinx lifeforms that won't have any impact on humans.


Sure but not so reasonable likelihood that Pavel Young would know of it. Perhaps less reasonable even with his father's connections he would have access to it. Of course, I have been wrong before.

I tend to agree with you WeirdlyWired.

Although, the notion is quite possible and it never would have occurred to me. OTOH, that is something that would surely require many moving parts.

1) It would require the callous, irresponsible, selfish, priviledged born brat to even care to research it. Young never did anything for himself along those lines, he always got Georgia to do it. If such a drug exists, I wouldn't think it'd be generally published or common knowledge, for safety of the cats. Sort of like their own version of kryptonite. And it isn't like Young could have aroused suspicion towards himself going around enquiring. He would have wanted to maintain a low profile, ensuring a cutout that wouldn't lead back to him. Maintaining some form of plausible deniability.

2) Being the overbred cretin that he was and the obvious sexual pervert, would he not simply use the drugs from his own stockpile? I have a feeling Young has date raped before. He didn't have any regard towards women.

And certainly Georgia didn't research for any specialized drugs for him, or she'd have also passed that knowledge on to Honor.

If that had been the case, it would have rang alarms had it ever been investigated and it would have appeared that someone tried to assassinate Nimitz and that would have raised alarms into a possible Peep involvement, if a specialized drug, only effective against treecats would have been found in Nimitz' system. Such drug certainly would have highlighted the possibility of a Havenite involvement and could have turned into a nasty investigation. I wonder if Young would even risk such a thing. Drugs can be found in the system for quite some time after the fact, using some form of a mass spectrical analysis. I'm partial to the GC/MS method that I employ in the lab. Accurate to within parts per million. I'd imagine more sensitivity is achieved with Honorverse tech. In considering that, I'd think that Young would use a widely available and common drug in case it is investigated. Of course, you could certainly be correct as well.

There is also Pharmokinetics.

Pharmacokinetics
Pharmacokinetics is often studied using mass spectrometry because of the complex nature of the matrix (often blood or urine) and the need for high sensitivity to observe low dose and long time point data. The most common instrumentation used in this application is LC-MS with a triple quadrupole mass spectrometer. Tandem mass spectrometry is usually employed for added specificity. Standard curves and internal standards are used for quantitation of usually a single pharmaceutical in the samples. The samples represent different time points as a pharmaceutical is administered and then metabolized or cleared from the body. Blank or t=0 samples taken before administration are important in determining background and ensuring data integrity with such complex sample matrices. Much attention is paid to the linearity of the standard curve; however it is not uncommon to use curve fitting with more complex functions such as quadratics since the response of most mass spectrometers is less than linear across large concentration ranges.
There is currently considerable interest in the use of very high sensitivity mass spectrometry for microdosing studies, which are seen as a promising alternative to animal experimentation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_spectrometry

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by Weird Harold   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:48 am

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cthia wrote:I tend to agree with you WeirdlyWired.

Although, the notion is quite possible and it never would have occurred to me. OTOH, that is something that would surely require many moving parts.

1) It would require the callous, irresponsible, selfish, priviledged born brat to even care to research it. ...


1: I don't think Georgia worked for North Hollow or the Youngs when Pavel was at Saganami. IIRC she was an independent operator and frequent "person of interest" to the Landing PD.

2: A simpler answer to the question of collateral damage is:

A: Pavel (or any of the Youngs) wouldn't care about collateral damage

and

B: A Fatal Dose for a treecat would probably be an under-dose for an average human; what would kill a treecat would only make a human drowsy.
.
.
.
Answers! I got lots of answers!

(Now if I could just find the right questions.)
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Re: Honor & Nimitz & Pavel Young
Post by cthia   » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:02 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:I tend to agree with you WeirdlyWired.

Although, the notion is quite possible and it never would have occurred to me. OTOH, that is something that would surely require many moving parts.

1) It would require the callous, irresponsible, selfish, priviledged born brat to even care to research it. ...


1: I don't think Georgia worked for North Hollow or the Youngs when Pavel was at Saganami. IIRC she was an independent operator and frequent "person of interest" to the Landing PD.

2: A simpler answer to the question of collateral damage is:

A: Pavel (or any of the Youngs) wouldn't care about collateral damage

and

B: A Fatal Dose for a treecat would probably be an under-dose for an average human; what would kill a treecat would only make a human drowsy.

1) Thanks. I thought that Georgia was in Dmitri's employment for quite some time. The timeline and my memory are often at odds.

2) That is certainly the Youngin's MO. Highlighting an even colder SOB, certainly if he used one of his own friends unbeknownst, to deliver the payload.

B: Good point. However, any alcohol consumed or possible allergy could have evened the odds.

Late Edit:
On the flip side of that logic Harold, an average dose for a human could quite possibly kill a treecat. Which brings us right back to how did Young know of the correct dosage to deliver? Potluck celery?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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