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Hope & Aspirations for the Finale

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by aairfccha   » Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:36 am

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About backup plans for the Alignment I am again floating my idea of releasing some modification virus in the Verge. You don't need real military power to pull it off and if enough new beneficial modifications float around, eventually even Beowulf should get the message. In any case it's a major kick where it hurts them. :twisted:
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by Max   » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:12 pm

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Ah. I started re-reading the Honorverse sequence just before Honorcon and finished SOV yesterday. There are a few things that have been mentioned in this thread that need commenting on...

There are at least two main threads in the Honorverse book series. The first started with Basilisk and is enumerated in the front of all the David Webber books. Shadow of Victory is not on that list. It is part of the second Honorverse series. It has Michael Heniki as its main character. The next Honorverse book is going to be in the main series and will have Honor and company in the main role.

RFC/DW has mentioned that the next book in the Honorverse series will be ending a story arc. That means Honor's story will be concluded in one way or another. Some of the fore-shadowing makes certain events quite likely:

1) Beowulf is going to get whacked real hard by the Solarian League in the A story line of that final book. As usual, the Solies are going to going to come off much worse for the effort. The Mandarins are almost certainly not going to survive the resulting backlash and there will be a major restructuring of the League as a result.

2) Honor will be in charge of the fleet defending Beowulf. There is a very good chance she and Nimitz will get killed in the chaos.

3) Grayson will make significant contributions to the story in some way. The rivalry among the steadholders will get a final hashing out.

4) Some elements in the second string collaborations will be advanced with events on Torch, Mesa and Maya occupying slots in the B story line. More of the Janis sub-plot elements will be closed.

5) The Renaissance will engage the residual elements of the Solarian League, but will run afoul major resistance from Maya. As a guess, the Solies will discover they have to reconcile with Beowulf and the Grand Alliance, but Battle Fleet will get ground up quite thoroughly before that happens. This will get into the book that follows SOV.

6) Additional young adult sequence books will introduce new authors to the Honorverse, hopefully with better results than what happened to the Pern series...
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by cthia   » Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:45 am

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Max wrote:Ah. I started re-reading the Honorverse sequence just before Honorcon and finished SOV yesterday. There are a few things that have been mentioned in this thread that need commenting on...

There are at least two main threads in the Honorverse book series. The first started with Basilisk and is enumerated in the front of all the David Webber books. Shadow of Victory is not on that list. It is part of the second Honorverse series. It has Michael Heniki as its main character. The next Honorverse book is going to be in the main series and will have Honor and company in the main role.

RFC/DW has mentioned that the next book in the Honorverse series will be ending a story arc. That means Honor's story will be concluded in one way or another. Some of the fore-shadowing makes certain events quite likely:

1) Beowulf is going to get whacked real hard by the Solarian League in the A story line of that final book. As usual, the Solies are going to going to come off much worse for the effort. The Mandarins are almost certainly not going to survive the resulting backlash and there will be a major restructuring of the League as a result.

2) Honor will be in charge of the fleet defending Beowulf. There is a very good chance she and Nimitz will get killed in the chaos.

3) Grayson will make significant contributions to the story in some way. The rivalry among the steadholders will get a final hashing out.

4) Some elements in the second string collaborations will be advanced with events on Torch, Mesa and Maya occupying slots in the B story line. More of the Janis sub-plot elements will be closed.

5) The Renaissance will engage the residual elements of the Solarian League, but will run afoul major resistance from Maya. As a guess, the Solies will discover they have to reconcile with Beowulf and the Grand Alliance, but Battle Fleet will get ground up quite thoroughly before that happens. This will get into the book that follows SOV.

6) Additional young adult sequence books will introduce new authors to the Honorverse, hopefully with better results than what happened to the Pern series...

This post is really doing me a number Max. My digestive system is overloaded. Thanks for all of the info/insight. May I ask where you acquired the bulk of it? I'm not doubting you, just wondering if I missed one of RFC's audio interviews or something along those lines.

At any rate. If some of it is true, I'm gonna have a nervous breakdown.

1) Is the general consensus totally in agreement that the Sollies are going to be the one to hit Beowulf? Their last trip in Beowulf space didn't go so well for them. And the Sollies know that Beowulf is sporting RMN tech. They don't know to what extent. And the RMN would be irresponsible to not have shored up Beowulf's defenses/capabilities under the circumstances. And when I ask if the Sollies are going to be the instigator of the Beowulf disaster, what I specifically am asking is whether it will be a formal plan of the Sollies or represent more movement of forces by the MAlign by proxy -- still trying to get the two to finish each other off, somehow. I'm just unclear on what the Sollies could think has changed that they could attack Beowulf.

2) No no no. Honor simply cannot die! Therapy time for me.

I keep thinking Honor still has command of Home Fleet. Doh! Regardless, if it is the Sollies that will be attacking, how can things get so bad that Honor and Nimitz will be threatened? Even if the Sollies Hail Mary they couldn't pull anything threatening off. Unless the MAlign lie doggo and ambush Honor??? Dammit Batman.

Question, if Honor is killed, what will become of her steading? And who'll replace her in that capacity who would still carry the same weight of metal in the Conclave of Steadholders?

3) Grayson's contribution will come in the form of one Abigail Hearns. It is almost a given on my plate as well that the Skeleton Keys will have another opportunity to make waves.

4) ...

5) If the Sollies attack Beowulf, why would Beowulf be interested in reconciling later? I don't even think Beowulf would want to reconcile now, even before an attack if the Sollies had a sudden epiphany for a change.

6) Outside writers? Is that a given?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by JohnRoth   » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:28 am

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Max wrote:Ah. I started re-reading the Honorverse sequence just before Honorcon and finished SOV yesterday. There are a few things that have been mentioned in this thread that need commenting on...

There are at least two main threads in the Honorverse book series. The first started with Basilisk and is enumerated in the front of all the David Webber books. Shadow of Victory is not on that list. It is part of the second Honorverse series. It has Michael Heniki as its main character. The next Honorverse book is going to be in the main series and will have Honor and company in the main role.

RFC/DW has mentioned that the next book in the Honorverse series will be ending a story arc.


The next book is the last book in the current series. Period. It will end one of the two main arcs: the war against the Solarian League. The other one, the MAlign arc, will be left dangling in case there's ever another series.

There may be some fill-in books; David has mentioned a few characters' stories he'd like to write. He's gone back and forth on whether there will be another major series, and the last I've heard, the answer is NO.

The point you're missing in your speculations is that the two series are sequential. In the first series as originally planned, Honor died at the Battle of Manticore. The second series was supposed to start 20 or 30 years later, and feature Honor's children.

Then Eric Flint happened, the second series got moved up, and Henke was introduced to take the place of one of Honor's children. HH wasn't supposed to be in the second series at all; which was always supposed to have a wide canvas.

Max wrote:That means Honor's story will be concluded in one way or another. Some of the fore-shadowing makes certain events quite likely:

1) Beowulf is going to get whacked real hard by the Solarian League in the A story line of that final book. As usual, the Solies are going to going to come off much worse for the effort. The Mandarins are almost certainly not going to survive the resulting backlash and there will be a major restructuring of the League as a result.


That second part is a given. There will almost certainly be a Battle of Beowulf, but outside of Mycroft playing a central role in shredding the SL fleet, the rest is unknown.

Max wrote:2) Honor will be in charge of the fleet defending Beowulf. There is a very good chance she and Nimitz will get killed in the chaos.


I seriously doubt that Honor will be in charge of the Beowulf fleet.

Max wrote:3) Grayson will make significant contributions to the story in some way. The rivalry among the steadholders will get a final hashing out.


Not enough space in the book for that arc, which belongs to the first sequence in any case.

Max wrote:4) Some elements in the second string collaborations will be advanced with events on Torch, Mesa and Maya occupying slots in the B story line. More of the Janis sub-plot elements will be closed.


Torch is Eric Flint's contribution. Since he's no longer involved, Torch and associated characters, including Black Victor, will not have a central role, if they get mentioned at all.

The final book will focus on the breakup of the Solarian League; the MAlign will ease back into the shadows.

Max wrote:5) The Renaissance will engage the residual elements of the Solarian League, but will run afoul major resistance from Maya. As a guess, the Solies will discover they have to reconcile with Beowulf and the Grand Alliance, but Battle Fleet will get ground up quite thoroughly before that happens. This will get into the book that follows SOV.


Since the RF is part of the MAlign thread, it's not going to have a major part to play -- the MAlign's plan at this point is to go back into the shadows. Mesan Alignment? What Mesan Alignment? There is no Mesan Alignment -- just ask them. They're not going to do anything that will confirm that they exist, including participating in the assault on Beowulf.

Max wrote:6) Additional young adult sequence books will introduce new authors to the Honorverse, hopefully with better results than what happened to the Pern series...


More YA books. Snort! The trouble with the idea is that the last YA series would have gone really well as one of Heinlein's juveniles, back in the 50s and 60s. Today's YA books are a heck of a lot darker. Think Hunger Games. That's simply not what RFC wants to write.
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by munroburton   » Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:39 am

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cthia wrote:2) No no no. Honor simply cannot die! Therapy time for me.

I keep thinking Honor still has command of Home Fleet. Doh! Regardless, if it is the Sollies that will be attacking, how can things get so bad that Honor and Nimitz will be threatened? Even if the Sollies Hail Mary they couldn't pull anything threatening off. Unless the MAlign lie doggo and ambush Honor??? Dammit Batman.

Question, if Honor is killed, what will become of her steading? And who'll replace her in that capacity who would still carry the same weight of metal in the Conclave of Steadholders?


Honor only commanded Home Fleet for around six months after First Manticore. Then she reverted to Eighth Fleet commander for MoH. She was made Grand Fleet commander for Second Manticore, with Home Fleet becoming one of its subordinate units temporarily.

I'd like to note that Home Fleet alone could have handled Filareta's fleet. Therefore the Grand Fleet is probably already dispersed - we know some of the Havenite elements were sent to reinforce Tenth Fleet and that over two hundred wallers were re-stationed at the Beowulf Terminus after Second Manticore, for examples. I imagine they'll be calling her Supreme Allied Commander or something like that in the next book.

Whenever Honor dies(whether it's months or centuries), Raoul inherits both the Harrington Steading and the Harrington Duchy. If that happens before his eighteenth(or is it 21st?) birthday, we've already seen the Harrington Steading operate under a regency council whilst Honor was believed dead during her time on Cerberus, with considerably more difficulty surrounding the question of succession.

Both her Duchy and Steading are already set up to be managed without her presence anyway.
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by cthia   » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:31 am

cthia
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munroburton wrote:
cthia wrote:2) No no no. Honor simply cannot die! Therapy time for me.

I keep thinking Honor still has command of Home Fleet. Doh! Regardless, if it is the Sollies that will be attacking, how can things get so bad that Honor and Nimitz will be threatened? Even if the Sollies Hail Mary they couldn't pull anything threatening off. Unless the MAlign lie doggo and ambush Honor??? Dammit Batman.

Question, if Honor is killed, what will become of her steading? And who'll replace her in that capacity who would still carry the same weight of metal in the Conclave of Steadholders?


Honor only commanded Home Fleet for around six months after First Manticore. Then she reverted to Eighth Fleet commander for MoH. She was made Grand Fleet commander for Second Manticore, with Home Fleet becoming one of its subordinate units temporarily.

I'd like to note that Home Fleet alone could have handled Filareta's fleet. Therefore the Grand Fleet is probably already dispersed - we know some of the Havenite elements were sent to reinforce Tenth Fleet and that over two hundred wallers were re-stationed at the Beowulf Terminus after Second Manticore, for examples. I imagine they'll be calling her Supreme Allied Commander or something like that in the next book.

Whenever Honor dies(whether it's months or centuries), Raoul inherits both the Harrington Steading and the Harrington Duchy. If that happens before his eighteenth(or is it 21st?) birthday, we've already seen the Harrington Steading operate under a regency council whilst Honor was believed dead during her time on Cerberus, with considerably more difficulty surrounding the question of succession.

Both her Duchy and Steading are already set up to be managed without her presence anyway.
Thanks for clearing all of that up, and for tying all of it into a neat package. I suppose Honor would have him on planet often enough so that if it ever came down to it Raoul wouldn't be a stranger to Grayson. Or vice versa.

Honor as Supreme Allied Command. Damn, how is that for doing alright for yourself? You've come a long way baby! I'd sure like to see her wear that title in the next book. And what a diverse assemblage of talent available to fill her dream team.


****** *


I was thinking about the very dark cloud that hangs over Beowulf's head. What if the MAlign uses Beowulf's Gremlins under nanite control to set loose on the planet and wreak havoc at some as of yet undisclosed yet opportune MAlign time?

Who's your nanny now?!

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by cthia   » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:27 am

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RFC throws us all a bone so that we can finally rest...

All of the captured Solly SDs are sent to the breakers.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by George J. Smith   » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:56 am

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cthia wrote:
RFC throws us all a bone so that we can finally rest...

All of the captured Solly SDs are sent to the breakers.



There will be someone who starts a thread over the legality of scrapping them :mrgreen:
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by munroburton   » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:41 am

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George J. Smith wrote:
cthia wrote:RFC throws us all a bone so that we can finally rest...

All of the captured Solly SDs are sent to the breakers.



There will be someone who starts a thread over the legality of scrapping them :mrgreen:[/quote]

Even if we get scenes involving diplomats thrashing out an agreement to split the scrap money three ways and a ceremony of the last SD being broken up, the arguments will simply shift to "Why did they do that?! These ships were still useful!" :roll:
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Re: Hope & Aspirations for the Finale
Post by cthia   » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:30 am

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cthia wrote:RFC throws us all a bone so that we can finally rest...

All of the captured Solly SDs are sent to the breakers.
George J. Smith wrote:There will be someone who starts a thread over the legality of scrapping them :mrgreen:
munroburton wrote:Even if we get scenes involving diplomats thrashing out an agreement to split the scrap money three ways and a ceremony of the last SD being broken up, the arguments will simply shift to "Why did they do that?! These ships were still useful!" :roll:

:lol:

Which is why my aspirations and hopes includes RFC sending the forlorn metal to the breakers properly—with appropriate accompaniment by Hammerwells Ode to Spring.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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