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THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!

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THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:29 am

cthia
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It is easy to destroy a planet's entire navy.
Destroy a CLAC and orphan its LACs.
Destroy a planet and orphan its navy.
Anisimovna




Listen my children and you shall hear
Of the midnight rides of the Mesans revere
The Lennys are coming! The Lennys are coming!


As he sat in his new War Room, it was difficult not to feel a soothing sense of God-like power—without the restraint of mercy.


The Lenny Dets are ready and the MA are all poised and prepared to come out into the open and make their mark on the galaxy with their first offensive maneuvers. What do you propose they should be?

You are the doppelgänger of one Thomas Caparelli sitting in your brand new War Room, with that brand new War Room smell — of cheap cologne and strong coffee. You have just received your missives authorizing offensive maneuvers anywhere in the Honorverse. You have at your disposal a new fleet of Lenny Dets.

There is also the smell of expensive parfum wafting from the sophisticated Hemphill-like doppelgänger briefing you on the capabilities of your new navy and tech.

What do you recommend your navy do? Assume that the League already has a fork in it. You know the lay of the land. And you know what you are facing. What are your recommendations?

Of course, we are limited in this exercise because we do not know the capabilities of the Lenny Dets. What do you conceive will be the capabilities of the new class of kid on the block to make the clash interesting that shall be built into him by his designer, David Weber? WWDD (What Will David Do) as the designer of the Lennys?

Will you be aggressive? Will you test the waters first? Will you go whole hog in a preemptive strike utilizing the element of surprise? What does your alpha inspired strategic and tactical acumen tell you? Make it count, as you yourself have a few Dets of your own to pay. As well as collect.

Also an exercise of who will get closer to the actual capabilities of the Lennys after their initial workout trials, some time in the 18th year of the 21st century.

The thrill of victory, and the agony of deceit.
Anisimovna


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Last edited by cthia on Wed Feb 15, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 16 times in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: The Lennys are coming! The Lennys are coming!
Post by George J. Smith   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:52 am

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cthia wrote:
Snipp...


Also an exercise of who will get closer to the actual capabilities of the Lennys after their initial workout trials, some time in 2018.



I don't think the LDs will be ready when the last book is delivered, I think rfc will take the Honorverse arc back to what his original concept was, the MAlign will be dealt with by Honors children and their peers, and that is when the LDs will come to the fore.
.
T&R
GJS

A man should live forever, or die in the attempt
Spider Robinson Callahan's Crosstime Saloon (1977) A voice is heard in Ramah
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Re: The Lennys are coming! The Lennys are coming!
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:59 am

cthia
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George J. Smith wrote:
cthia wrote:
Snipp...


Also an exercise of who will get closer to the actual capabilities of the Lennys after their initial workout trials, some time in 2018.



I don't think the LDs will be ready when the last book is delivered, I think rfc will take the Honorverse arc back to what his original concept was, the MAlign will be dealt with by Honors children and their peers, and that is when the LDs will come to the fore.

I sure hope that they are. I'd hate the prospect of being denied a taste of a completely new and quite formidable sounding design concept in the final book. At least a taste of the new recipe before it falls over the cliff-hanger.

For the sake of the thread, let's assume that they will be.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by Dauntless   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:34 pm

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very hard to speculate.

we know so little about how spider drive changes the tradtional weapons fit of a ship. plus no clear idea of size beyond big. are they going to be podlayers (probably have to be in some form) will they use tradtinal missiles or graser torps?

way too much unknown to make even wild assed guesses.
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by munroburton   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:20 pm

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Dauntless wrote:very hard to speculate.

we know so little about how spider drive changes the tradtional weapons fit of a ship. plus no clear idea of size beyond big. are they going to be podlayers (probably have to be in some form) will they use tradtinal missiles or graser torps?

way too much unknown to make even wild assed guesses.


We know a little - they're upscaled versions of the Sharks with internal magazines to fire those graser torpedoes. We also know the original Oyster Bay was meant to be carried out by the LDs and include Haven, which has many more shipyards spread around.

I haven't seen any good theories on what they were supposed to do with them after Oyster Bay. Textev is, obviously, very scarce on that point.

My speculation is the actual OB attack we got could have been carried out by four LDs - one for each physical location(Manticore, Sphinx, Gryphon, Blackbird). The rest would've been doing the same to Haven's more scattered yards.

So what's next? Probably ambushes - figure out where the GA's going to visit, speed ahead with their improved hyper generators and lay doggo at a low relative velocity. The problem with that is, the LDs are no faster than the Ghosts or Sharks, so they would eventually be pinned down by recon drones operating with active scans, rather than passives.
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by Theemile   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:37 pm

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munroburton wrote:
Dauntless wrote:very hard to speculate.

we know so little about how spider drive changes the tradtional weapons fit of a ship. plus no clear idea of size beyond big. are they going to be podlayers (probably have to be in some form) will they use tradtinal missiles or graser torps?

way too much unknown to make even wild assed guesses.


We know a little - they're upscaled versions of the Sharks with internal magazines to fire those graser torpedoes. We also know the original Oyster Bay was meant to be carried out by the LDs and include Haven, which has many more shipyards spread around.

I haven't seen any good theories on what they were supposed to do with them after Oyster Bay. Textev is, obviously, very scarce on that point.

My speculation is the actual OB attack we got could have been carried out by four LDs - one for each physical location(Manticore, Sphinx, Gryphon, Blackbird). The rest would've been doing the same to Haven's more scattered yards.

So what's next? Probably ambushes - figure out where the GA's going to visit, speed ahead with their improved hyper generators and lay doggo at a low relative velocity. The problem with that is, the LDs are no faster than the Ghosts or Sharks, so they would eventually be pinned down by recon drones operating with active scans, rather than passives.


Monroburton, you forgot a couple things.

1) Like the Sharks, they are podlayers.
2) As you implied, they mount the Spider drive, limiting their accel as you mentioned.
3) They probably mount a bubble sidewall (which cannot be used when the spider drive is active.)
4) They are considered to be true capital ships by the MA.
5) They are very large - when less than 50% complete, they were larger than the ~5 Mton Sharks.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:55 pm

cthia
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munroburton wrote:
Dauntless wrote:very hard to speculate.

we know so little about how spider drive changes the tradtional weapons fit of a ship. plus no clear idea of size beyond big. are they going to be podlayers (probably have to be in some form) will they use tradtinal missiles or graser torps?

way too much unknown to make even wild assed guesses.


We know a little - they're upscaled versions of the Sharks with internal magazines to fire those graser torpedoes. We also know the original Oyster Bay was meant to be carried out by the LDs and include Haven, which has many more shipyards spread around.

I haven't seen any good theories on what they were supposed to do with them after Oyster Bay. Textev is, obviously, very scarce on that point.

My speculation is the actual OB attack we got could have been carried out by four LDs - one for each physical location(Manticore, Sphinx, Gryphon, Blackbird). The rest would've been doing the same to Haven's more scattered yards.

So what's next? Probably ambushes - figure out where the GA's going to visit, speed ahead with their improved hyper generators and lay doggo at a low relative velocity. The problem with that is, the LDs are no faster than the Ghosts or Sharks, so they would eventually be pinned down by recon drones operating with active scans, rather than passives.
Theemile wrote:Monroburton, you forgot a couple things.

1) Like the Sharks, they are podlayers.
2) As you implied, they mount the Spider drive, limiting their accel as you mentioned.
3) They probably mount a bubble sidewall (which cannot be used when the spider drive is active.)
4) They are considered to be true capital ships by the MA.
5) They are very large - when less than 50% complete, they were larger than the ~5 Mton Sharks.

Wow, just a few posts and I've already learned a lot.

2. When I first read discussions regarding low accel, I thought that would be a serious disadvantage against a much more maneuverable opponent. So I wondered if RFC would give them an advantage in either initial accel (sprinters), then top out at ~ 400-500 gravities. Or vice versa with a max accel greater than the GA's. Perhaps, I'm in error about both?

3. Regarding your third point. It seems that would be a serious disadvantage during battle, no? They wouldn't be able to maneuver in a hell storm of incoming missiles w/o losing a fair amount of ship defenses - all else being equal?

Unless that disadvantage is offset with a much greater non ballistic missile range?

4. I wonder if they will also form some kind of wall of battle, being true capital ships. Or are they designed to operate as solitary units?

5. They could conceivably scale up to 10+ Mton when complete? Though I thought they'd be even larger. Has textev given if indeed the spider drive is what accounts for the extra tonnage?

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:09 pm

cthia
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Forgot to ask, has textev given graser torps acceleration? And the 3 second beam emitters seem closer to Borg lasers! GA ships can't possibly withstand a single hit?

Wouldn't that produce the same effect as the grav er nameless weapon?

I also wonder if they'll employ some sort of ship class as screening elements.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by munroburton   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:22 pm

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2. All manned spider drive ships top out at ~150g. Slower than impeller-drive merchantships.

3. The MAlign use the same missiles as the SLN(the Cataphracts). Graser torps have a spider drive and greater endurance, but are very slow and their maximum range falls well inside countermissile range(400,000km vs 3.5 million).

4. Unknown. There are no hints as to the Lennies' use other than in Oyster Bay style operations.

5. Wilder speculation has gone up to 30-40 million tons. It is probably closer to 10 million. Their size is nothing to do with the spider drive - there are frigate-sized spider ships. The size is more so they can carry graser torpedoes in internal magazines - which the "battleship sized" Sharks can't do.
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Re: THE LENNYS ARE COMING! THE LENNYS ARE COMING!
Post by cthia   » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:37 pm

cthia
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munroburton wrote:2. All manned spider drive ships top out at ~150g. Slower than impeller-drive merchantships.

3. The MAlign use the same missiles as the SLN(the Cataphracts). Graser torps have a spider drive and greater endurance, but are very slow and their maximum range falls well inside countermissile range(400,000km vs 3.5 million).

4. Unknown. There are no hints as to the Lennies' use other than in Oyster Bay style operations.

5. Wilder speculation has gone up to 30-40 million tons. It is probably closer to 10 million. Their size is nothing to do with the spider drive - there are frigate-sized spider ships. The size is more so they can carry graser torpedoes in internal magazines - which the "battleship sized" Sharks can't do.

The high guestimates sound more like the stats of a fricking fort! Mama Mia, I should have visited those technical threads a lot more.

What am I missing? There is a serious disadvantage in accel and max accel. And a serious advantage in missile range. What will there main tactical advantage be? Surely they can't get close enough with those behemoths if the larger tonnage sizes are correct? They won't be targeting space stations in a straight up fight.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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