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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Brigade XO   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:42 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
kzt wrote:Who are the people who have constructed a LAC carrying ship for the RMN? Oh, right, they are all dead.
Actually weren't the original CLACs built in the Weyland yards in Manticore-B?

Those workers were the ones who mostly survived due to fortuitously timed station evacuation drill.


That doesn't fix the rest of the issues, like where do you build these things and how do you build them in time to be useful - but workers who've build CLACs (if not the ones who made the Wayfarer class) should still be around.


Wayland's detached yards that were active probably went the way of Wayand in the Oyster Bay strike. Wayland's (most of them) personel only surived because the Admiral in charge of the station re-ran the evacuation drill just before OB hit. He died (he was overseeing the excercise from the station) but all that R&D and other staff/crew went down to the planet.

On the other hand, given that SLN and OFS already knows that Manticore already knows the locations of the regular FF baseing and logistics support nodal systems, it would be both reasonable, prudent and tacticaly sound to send resupply and logistics support to NEW locations to support the commerce raiders. Not the least of thier problems is that while FF has/had places like the Meyers system as an OFS Gov post, where they are sending the raiders in not going to be convienent to the exisdting (and still avaiable-they don't know about Meyers yet) FF logistic stations.
So they are going to have to set up rondezvous point- out in the dark like the Peeps did when they were sneaking around in Silesia)- where they aren't going to be seen and where they can park freighers and probably repair ships along with a guard force. That is what the GA is going to have to pull from captured, sevierly damaged, ship computers and then follow the co-ordinates with some force.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:56 pm

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I suspect that the rather limited number of people still alive who hands on know how to build ships will be teaching other people how to build ships instead of themselves building ships. Otherwise your supply of people who can build ships will not expand to match the growth of your facilities to build ships.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by n7axw   » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:15 pm

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kzt wrote:I suspect that the rather limited number of people still alive who hands on know how to build ships will be teaching other people how to build ships instead of themselves building ships. Otherwise your supply of people who can build ships will not expand to match the growth of your facilities to build ships.


A lot of that training will be hands on.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by pappilon   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:04 am

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n7axw wrote:
kzt wrote:I suspect that the rather limited number of people still alive who hands on know how to build ships will be teaching other people how to build ships instead of themselves building ships. Otherwise your supply of people who can build ships will not expand to match the growth of your facilities to build ships.


A lot of that training will be hands on.

Don

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I'm not sure how much work it takes to build a CLAC, but I am sure it is way more than the time to modify a 4 million ton cargo ship that is already built and lying doggo in Sphynx orbit, the cptin begging for work. Good training (as someone already pointed out) for a couple of crews.

For that matter, Maybe Haven has some civilian yard workers available?
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 2:10 am

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n7axw wrote:
kzt wrote:I suspect that the rather limited number of people still alive who hands on know how to build ships will be teaching other people how to build ships instead of themselves building ships. Otherwise your supply of people who can build ships will not expand to match the growth of your facilities to build ships.


A lot of that training will be hands on.

Don

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Indeed. It also suggests there will be a certain percentage of work related deaths/accidents.


What an amusing thought this spurs.

YouTube is an enormous source to learn all sorts of things. From how to cook a turkey, to building a deck, to building a bomb.

I wonder how advanced and efficient hands on video instruction has become in the Honorverse. Holotanks and HD can be great preliminary instruction on to how to build ships.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:06 am

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Regarding the Eridani Edict. It prevents bombardments from space. Is is safe to assume that ground to planet nuclear bombardments have become a no no in the Honorverse as well? ICBM's can kill just as many if not more. Strike for strike.

What's the difference? The ability to strike back?

Also, if some government did commit the unthinkable and committed an Eridani Edict violation, what would be the reprisal? Someone suggested tit-for-tat, but that's not humane, or practical, IMO—making the avengers just as immoral and insane as the government violating the Edict, with so many innocent people on planet who are not culpable.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:05 am

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pappilon wrote:I'm not sure how much work it takes to build a CLAC, but I am sure it is way more than the time to modify a 4 million ton cargo ship that is already built and lying doggo in Sphynx orbit, the cptin begging for work. Good training (as someone already pointed out) for a couple of crews.

For that matter, Maybe Haven has some civilian yard workers available?

If you fabricate the entire assembly in a factory, yeah. If you need to build it from scratch on site, then no, it is a lot more demanding. And since they don’t have any factories to build tens of thousands of ton assemblies...
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:27 am

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cthia wrote:Regarding the Eridani Edict. It prevents bombardments from space. Is is safe to assume that ground to planet nuclear bombardments have become a no no in the Honorverse as well? ICBM's can kill just as many if not more. Strike for strike.

What's the difference? The ability to strike back?

Also, if some government did commit the unthinkable and committed an Eridani Edict violation, what would be the reprisal? Someone suggested tit-for-tat, but that's not humane, or practical, IMO—making the avengers just as immoral and insane as the government violating the Edict, with so many innocent people on planet who are not culpable.

The impression that RFC gave when he described the Edict is that the wording is delivery system agnostic. It's just as much a violation to release a bioweapon WMD from a thermos in a city as it is to slam a relativistic missile into it from the outer system.

But I suspect very few planets have anything like ICBMs, and largely they have unified governments so you wouldn't have arms races or military standoffs within a single planet. (Side effect of them being colonized by single expedition is that they start, and retain, single governments. The actually government might change, but it's a lot easier to stage a successful coupe than it is to split off an independent nation on the planet.

(You do get rebels or resistance groups, but they're not likely to be able to buy or build ICBMs. Though construction nukes, delivered by aircar, are clearly quite possible)
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by ldwechsler   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:29 am

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kzt wrote:
pappilon wrote:I'm not sure how much work it takes to build a CLAC, but I am sure it is way more than the time to modify a 4 million ton cargo ship that is already built and lying doggo in Sphynx orbit, the cptin begging for work. Good training (as someone already pointed out) for a couple of crews.

For that matter, Maybe Haven has some civilian yard workers available?

If you fabricate the entire assembly in a factory, yeah. If you need to build it from scratch on site, then no, it is a lot more demanding. And since they don’t have any factories to build tens of thousands of ton assemblies...


The good news is that they are no longer fighting Haven. As a result, they will have the time to build more ships. And every one of those will as up to date as possible. A decent percentage of the ships destroyed were older ones in for repair. Also, note that Ginger's ship was NOT destroyed. Chances are that some of the newer ships were not actually connected and did not die. At her interview, the personnel captain talked about looking for officers for surviving ships.

All cruisers will be Hexampuma C's. Battlecruisers Nike class and maybe some Agamemnon class. SD's will be the latest.

Actually they will probably be better than a lot of the ships lost. Generally, improvements are made constantly.

Note that the Mandarins and the Sollie navy were more interested in the Manties not having more missiles.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by n7axw   » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:38 pm

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Manticore avoided having its new SD(p)s caught in OB which gives them a leg up in the pursuit of the war. They were working up at Trevor's Star. I haven't seen any exact figures on Manticore's current strength of modern wallers, though. Does anyone else know?

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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