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Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...

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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:01 am

cthia
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Annachie wrote:As I said, it would be because she held the place together.

Kind of like regent into Queen by acclaim.

Indeed Annachie. I like the way you think.


Damn, the subtle uses of that MAlign control tec can be nasty.

Get a mole in to the office somewhere, inplant the target with a "automatically sign when you smell this on something with that colour on it" or similar.
(Ok stretching, but you get the idea)

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

Yes it can be. Especially as a native tool in Aldona's arsenal.

I sure do know what you mean. Heck yea! Suddenly, sheepherding of the Herculean kind doesn't seem so implausible. I'm gobsmacked!

It all falls under the subtle applications of their technology — a surface barely scratched claims Anisimovna.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:11 am

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Annachie wrote:Cthia, have you ever introduced your neice to The Prince by Machiavelli?

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Aside:
Annachie wrote:Cthia, have you ever introduced your niece to The Prince by Machiavelli?

Sorry Annachie. I should have shared this with you long ago when I asked her. I totally forgot. What she said some time ago and reminded me of this morn, was that there are five books set on a small shelf against the wall in the War Room (Chess Room). My niece decorated that room with war type memorabilia from the ages. Sun Tzu The Art of War, Machiavelli's Art of War, and his "The Prince" comprises three of them. She says she loves them and reminds me that my sister is always on her about "not getting away with her latest Machiavellian schemes to overthrow her authority." My sister has all three of those volumes sitting on one of her coffee tables. That's where Tierney first eyed them she says.

.
Last edited by cthia on Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:21 am

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Weird Harold wrote:
cthia wrote:Email from my niece, who is turning coat... LOL

"Is it possible that a Winton contingency plan to ensure succession under all circumstances includes the freezing of Winton blood?"

Doh!

You turn coat! Why, I oughta...


That would be easier to dispose of or adulterate than killing off the Dynasty "Root and Branch"

Plus the Beowulf Code prohibits the cloning or posthumous conception for the purposes of inheritance -- as detailed in discussions on the succession of Harrington Stedding when Honor was presumed dead.

The thoughts flushed out of my niece early this morn "before she even brushed her teeth" (croaks my sister) LOL ...

I knew someone would bring that up! Yes, however, I'm certain that the Beowulf Code never took into account that that might someday be the only option. In absence of any other Winton blood, unerringly standing on tradition and law seems illogical. Much as when law and tradition was usurped on Grayson in the not so rare instances when a female became Steadholder. Suddenly, any frozen Winton blood becomes like manna. Even a drop. If that child was subsequently birthed could cause a constitutional crisis under the circumstances. That decree was made in the spirit of protecting the tradition not in killing it. You live by the law, not die by it. The law is not malleable, people are. And since people make the laws, laws are.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by saber964   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:29 pm

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The problem is that there are potentially thousands of Winton family members in the line of succession. Let's not forget that Gwen Archer and Augustus Khuamalo are distantly related to QEIII. Plus let's not forget other branches of the Winton's. It would be something like the House of Windsor which has something like 250+ heirs to the throne in England alone before it jumps to the Royal family of Norway then jumps to Sweden then Germany then Russia then Greece then Italy then Spain then etc. Remember that WWI was basically a family squabble.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by kzt   » Mon Oct 10, 2016 11:26 pm

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Well, yeah, but you have actually read the books. The cthia and skimpers find that reading stuff all terribly boring, so when they come up with their ideas they are actually talking about a honorverse that has only some vague relationship to what David has actually written.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:40 am

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kzt wrote:He's the honorverse social expert version of skimper the honorverse tech guru.
kzt wrote:Well, yeah, but you have actually read the books. The cthia and skimpers find that reading stuff all terribly boring, so when they come up with their ideas they are actually talking about a honorverse that has only some vague relationship to what David has actually written.

Inaccurate title assertion. You have a distinct case of mistaken identity in addition to your occasional bouts of bad manners. I can help you with the mistaken identity. The bad manners should have been handled when you were a child. I could recommend some classes for you to take. Need me to pay for it?

The social expert is one Aldona Anisimovna. Hasn't she accomplished enough in that area to lay claim to that title? What books have you been reading? The books I read certainly have as a character one Aldona Anisimovna. The fact that you can't wrap your head around the possibility of this sort of strike is your problem and your shortcoming. If it doesn't have laser heads and missiles in it, you can't handle it. Back away from the laser heads and spanners for a moment and engage in some extracurricular thinking.

Exercise your thought processes to the possibility that the MAlign may set Anisimovna loose. She is the doppelganger of the Salamander. Sally has accomplished a lot of unbelievable feats in the Honorverse. Her navy set her free. Anise has accomplished a lot as well. Yet she has to hide. She has to pull her punches from behind a curtain. She has to operate with her gloves on and her hands tied. Poor little kzt, he thinks he got her and her abilities all figured out. Even though the Manties hasn't. Let me tell you something kzt, she doesn't give aratsass about your missiles. She'll just make you eat one. And just like Rajampet, you'll realize that you underestimated her talents just before you die.

I'm going to assume a bit of you and proceed as if you'll agree that if approximately 5000 people of Winton importance were assembled on some, let's say 600 acres, that an EE strike could wipe them out.

Then the problem only becomes one of...

logistics: the detailed coordination of a complex operation involving many people, facilities, or supplies.

I think she's proved that she doesn't have a problem with logistics either. Blah, that's really not saying much. She's an Alpha, she shouldn't. That wasn't in your book either?

Thousands! Thousands!! Thousands!!! There are literally thousands of specific people she has to move to a particular place to carry out this strike.

THOUSANDS!

It is just a number to the MAlign people. "Thousands" is as insignificant to the MAlign as "centuries." And if you really think the MAlign cannot move thousands of people to a specific place at a specific time, then I know where you can find that missing missile you've unaccounted for. You must have overlooked the SLN warships they moved with thousands of people in them. Someone else's ships. Someone else's people. Someone else's navy! Not in your book either? Seems you have a reading problem yourself, 'eh?

And nanotech was not even used to accomplish that feat. Now just imagine if it were utilized to accomplish this goal in conjunction with Anise's other already proven talents along with yet others we haven't yet seen, because she hasn't yet been loosed. Can your brain digest that? To help you visualize it, just think of her as a missile. A very advanced missile. You only have one in your arsenal. Why is that?


Oh I know what it is. There's no way that Anise can move ~ 5000 Wintons. They have a particularly special DNA. Their nanotech simply cannot target the Wintons en mass subtly. The only thing your mind can see is the macroscopic destructive use of the tech -- right down your alley. Anise is an alpha, her brain waves are a tad bit more efficient than kzt's. She conceives of that which leaves you playing with your spanners.

"It was simply like pushing baby Manticorans into the kill zone."



A L D O N [A] N I S I M O V N A: Character Profile or Assassination

I imagine she and Detweiler became respected friends much as with Honor and Elizabeth and he began to call her Anise for short. Her writings read like a doctoral thesis. It is common knowledge that Detweiler is hooked on them. You can always see him with the latest publishings of one Aldona Anisimovna. In Detweiler's head Aldona was the archetypal Harrington antithesis. The strategic and tactical Anise solutions of how to deal with a particluarly thorny problem quickly became known as an Anise thesis. Which often prompted inside jokes outside the board room of "Anesthetize them!"

The MA created a monster. She is one Aldona Anisimovna. When you look out of your eyes and you see a monster, what does the monster see? A target.

You know that Old Earth movie whose character line says...

"And Rambo was the best. Period!"

Well, Aldona picks her teeth with the wiles of Georgia Sakristos. She is McGyver. She is Harkness. She is Bond - Dames Bond. She is the Salamander's doppelganger.

As Social Interactions go? Well, Anisimovna is the best. Period!

Several thousand people needed to be herded into one area. The logistics of actually getting that many people together threatened to kill Aldona with delight. The only difficult part was containing the laughter and patting herself on the back.

techtarget.com wrote:Social engineering is an attack vector that relies heavily on human interaction and often involves tricking people into breaking normal security procedures.
wiki wrote:Social engineering, in the context of information security, refers to psychological manipulation of people into performing actions or divulging confidential information. A type of confidence trick for the purpose of information gathering, fraud, or system access, it differs from a traditional "con" in that it is often one of many steps in a more complex fraud scheme.

She is the social expert. Again, Has she not yet provided plenty enough of socially engineered carnage to lay claim to that title?

She is a master of social entropy, with a clinical interest in anomie.

Anomie is a "condition in which society provides little moral guidance to individuals". It is the breakdown of social bonds between an individual and the community, e.g., under unruly scenarios resulting in fragmentation of social identity and rejection of self-regulatory values. It was popularized by French sociologist Émile Durkheim in his influential book Suicide (1897). Durkheim never uses the term normlessness; rather, he describes anomie as "derangement", and "an insatiable will".
For Durkheim, anomie arises more generally from a mismatch between personal or group standards and wider social standards, or from the lack of a social ethic, which produces moral deregulation and an absence of legitimate aspirations. This is a nurtured condition:

Most sociologists associate the term with Durkheim, who used the concept to speak of the ways in which an individual's actions are matched, or integrated, with a system of social norms and practices… anomie is a mismatch, not simply the absence of norms. Thus, a society with too much rigidity and little individual discretion could also produce a kind of anomie... Thus, fatalistic suicide arises when a person is too rule-governed...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomie


Again, the only problem was a tactical problem of herding the cattle. Anisimovna uses social engineering as a sheepherding dog. That's why it always bites you in the ass.

This is the [equal and opposite] of the Salamander. Honor had a chance to strut her stuff. Anisimovna is a jewel waiting to shine. We've only seen glimmers of what Anisimovna can do. She very well may be the greatest tactical and strategic mind in the Honorverse. If you look up the phrase "We created a monster" in the Honorverse - there lies an HD link to the beautiful but dangerous Anisimovna.

There's so much schit in this woman's head that the innermost recesses of her mind embarrasses even her. Anisimovna is the kind of person who lives buttressed against the precipice of megalomania. IMO, the difference between Honor and Aldona, is when Aldona's plan is successful, she celebrates in her lair. Aldona enjoys the kill. She is a Salamander without a conscience. She doesn't count her dead in her sleep. She counts the living. Can you wrap your brain around that!?

She is so brilliant that it prompted the Alignment to bring her inside the inner onion. Smart of them, but then they are alphas too.

As a reminder. I imagine this can be found in Anise's head...
"It is easy to destroy a planet's entire navy"...

Destroy a CLAC and orphan its LACs.
Destroy a planet and orphan its navy.
—Anisimovna


"Well, let's just put "Operation Orphan" on the back burner. For now. Can you accomplish the same goals without losing so much infrastructure and Manticoran lives?" Asks Detweiler.

"You don't ask for much do you?"

"Considering your abilities? No."

"In that case, I'm certain my "Operation Dismiss" would fit with your approval"

"You don't say, tell me more about this "Operation Dismiss."

"I have a thesis already prepared."

"An Anise thesis? Well, we'll just Anesthetize them!"

Do you guys think that Anisimovna is a joke? She's another huckleberry.

When Anisimovna opens her briefcase, lots of people die.

"All the worlds my stage."


****** *

"Life is all in the conception. Seeing what others don't."

My father taught me that before I was five.

My father...

"There was a contest at a school to find the smartest person. There are people sitting around trying to put circular objects in either a square hole or a round hole. There are many people trying to force it into the square hole. Many many more people were smart enough to place the circular objects in the round hole. But none of them were selected."

"Why?"

"They decided to select the brilliant student instead. He didn't put the circular object in either hole. He recognized it as something entirely special. He put it in his pocket instead and later came up with the idea of the donut and got rich."

"Think outside the box. That's where life is."

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by Potato   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 5:43 am

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Social engineering? Please. The Alignment is supporting hundreds of false flag operations in the Verge, yet have had a number of them fail to take root, or blow up before coming to fruition. 100.0000% success rate is an impossibility, especially for a group who are so diverse in every aspect. You are ascribing literal magic powers in a series which tries to be grounded as far as human behavior is concerned. This is handwavium at its worst, exactly like Skimper.
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 7:28 am

cthia
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Anisimovna's vanity plate...
The thrill of victory and the agony of deceit.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Tue Oct 11, 2016 9:26 am

cthia
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Class assignment and intellectual consumption for those whose brain isn't already saturated. The premise of this thread is not...

EE violations of the Dismissive Kind

it is

EE violations of the most Dismissive Kind.

If the MA asks Anisimovna to take her gloves off, she'll go whole hog.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Eridani Edict Violation of the most Dismissive Kind...
Post by cthia   » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:35 am

cthia
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Do I think this scenario will happen? Of course not. Do I think it is likely to happen? Not likely. Do I think it could happen? I absolutely friggin' do.

The MAlign certainly has the capability to attempt it. They have not taken their gloves off, simply because they choose not to. Their plan is to fight hidden in the shadows behind an iron curtain. I simply wanted to entertain — in light of much of their plan already going awry and the universe taking on a direction completely in defiance of their intended course (another 800# gorilla conceived in the belly of the GA) — the possibility that the MAlign very well could decide to change their plans and take off their gloves.

It certainly could happen. And it really doesn't take handwavium to do it. It'd simply take a stroke or three of the quill in RFC's hand. None of us think RFC would roll the dice that way and we're certain that he'd rather choose to wield the quill genteel. However, I for one have a mind inundated with "whatifs." It helps me stay sane by affording me enough warning time to shore up my defenses against the latest strike by the author's. I certainly hope that everyone realizes that this type of EE strike would truly come via the MA only by proxy — the real instigator would be the author and the proponent would be the will of his quill.

Having said all of that, the author has all but decreed that although the MAlign will get its bowl of just deserts, it won't be a full *Jethro Bodine sized serving. The MA won't be completely destroyed — "In a manner that I think will satisfy the readers." Loosely paraphrasing the author.

On the hinge of that thought, what is preventing the survivors of whatever upcoming confrontation there is between the GA and the MA to become just as angry as we propose Manticore or Haven would be after recovering, if they would ever become the unlucky recipients of an EE violation? What is preventing the MA from reappearing on the scene in the future to seek the same sort of passionate and personal revenge, when they are ready to come out into the open, just as loaded for bear? So why not entertain the thought now, while Honor lives? (Should she at some point meet her maker, the shameless opportunist I am) :D And fill the pot full — with a complete decapitation — instead of half empty?

I imagine that there are subtle uses of MAlign tech. A premeditated EE violation does not have to be carried out with the intent to completely destroy a planet. MAlign tech can usher in a New Age of humane EEV strikes. The nanotech could be used in a subtle manner as well. It doesn't have to cause someone to suicide by driving into a mountain, eating a pulser shot, suicide by cop or Sally's finger.

If the MA were to truly decide to come out of the shadows they'd almost certainly remove their gloves beforehand. And with their gloves off it becomes quite easy for them to unscrew the child-proof cap off of their nanotech. IIRC, their plan to remain hidden is the only reason their nanotech hasn't been unleashed in full force, so to speak. Thus far, iinm, it has only been administered via aerosol. We all know that an intravenous injection works better - so to speak. Not simply, and only, intravenous injections to the blood system but an intravenous injection of the concept.

What is the full potential of the nanotech if it were unleashed and used ruthlessly? Is there a subtle use of it? Even if only a one time use? Can it be utilized as the ace in the hole of a more ruthless and overall sinister plan greater that the suicide or murder of a single individual? Can the subtle use include the "why did I just sign that document?" As touched on by Annachie and I? Could it subtly be utilized to herd sheep?

Moreover, if its full potential is unleashed because their will to use it becomes unfettered, can it be used en mass? I am aware that its present limitation is that the nanite has to be DNA coded for a specific individual. Yet the DNA of an entire blood line is similar. What if **Renzo Kyprianou and his bio research teams perfected the weapon to target the entire Winton blood line? Is that possible?

The MA bio-tech is downright scary. There are many ways they could decide to kill the Manticore in the worse way possible. This was only one possibility that I imagined. And even this way leads one to many other similar solutions. As touched on by munroburton.
munroburton wrote:It's not that far out. Indeed, one doesn't need to resort to an Eridani Edict violation to accomplish such goals.

See how the Harris government ended.



****** *


To be honest, I had this thought running around in my head for quite some time and sat on it. My niece predicted that this was really going to cause a lot of migraines for me. She also argued that I should set up two or more baskets of chickens and eggs or chickens and eggs (events) to make it more "palatable" was her word. I argued that it was the discussion afterwards that I was concerned with and not the mechanics of the strike or the situation that allowed it. She argued that I should reconsider to remove the stumbling blocks of the discussion. Seems she was right after all. And she's laughing at her prediction.

The little minx also warned me that there may be a loophole in this method of eradicating every drop of Winton blood (which she delightedly withheld). "I don't want to influence your post Uncle. I'll just throw out an antibone later."

"Antibone, you mean you'll turn coat on me?"

"Don't worry, there's a loophole inside the bone as well."

Bone being frozen Winton blood. One drop of frozen Winton blood could cause a Constitutional crisis.

The loophole being the Beowulf Code that Weird Harold threw into the pot. The antibone the turn coat failed to warn me about that I missed. I sat on this since New Years Day where I had to listen to...

"You posted that thingy yet Uncle? Chicken Schit? Cluck! Cluck!"

"Perhaps. Chickens don't stand a chance against pitchforks."

****** *

**By the way, anyone know of the whereabouts of...
Renzo Kyprianou was a Mesan citizen and scientist. He was the head of bio weapons research for Manpower Incorporated (and, in fact, the Mesan Alignment) and was a key player in the development of the nanotech used in Operation Rat Poison. (HH11)

He was an assistant to Everett Detweiler. (SI2)


*Jethro Bodine is the cousin of a hillbilly family on the old tv show "The Beverly Hillbillies." He ate like a horse and pooped like one too. He had an insane appetite. His lovely sister Ellie Mae once told him, "I don't know why you bother eating Corn Flakes out of a bowl Jethro. Why don't you just pour the milk right into the box."

And so he did. He later graduated to a bucket.

By the way. My extreme gratitude goes out to munroburton, Annachie and any others who helped the discussion to at least progress to this point. And their open mind for the sake of discussion.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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